From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat May 1 12:03:31 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26325; Sat, 1 May 93 12:03:31 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11901; Sat, 1 May 93 11:48:57 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uu5.psi.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11895; Sat, 1 May 93 11:48:55 -0700 Received: from teraluna.UUCP by uu5.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA06017 for ; Sat, 1 May 93 13:57:35 -0400 Received: by TerraLuna.Org (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Sat, 01 May 93 13:37:44 EDT for pine-info@cac.washington.edu To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: PC Pine Availability From: stevegt@terraluna.org (Steve Traugott) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 01 May 93 13:32:46 EDT Organization: ---TerraLuna------* ...Evolution at Work Hi All! I've been lurking on the sidelines, waiting for a PC-Pine announcement. Did I miss it? I see a lot of discussion of DOS platforms here... Steve --- . . ` * Steve Traugott ` . * + stevegt@TerraLuna.Org ...Evolution of Organizations + ` . . stevegt@well.sf.ca.us Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . UUs-L@UBVM.BITNET List Manager Currently contracting in Summit, NJ . From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat May 1 13:10:57 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26907; Sat, 1 May 93 13:10:57 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12196; Sat, 1 May 93 13:01:26 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12190; Sat, 1 May 93 13:01:25 -0700 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00104; Sat, 1 May 93 13:01:01 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 12:09:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: PC Pine Availability To: Steve Traugott Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 1 May 1993, Steve Traugott wrote: > I've been lurking on the sidelines, waiting for a PC-Pine > announcement. Did I miss it? I see a lot of discussion of DOS > platforms here... Steve, Gosh, I wish I could say "yes, you missed it"... :) Unfortunately, we're running late. Here's the current status: There exists a test version of PC-Pine that is available by request. Nearly 100 people have requested it. The good news is that very few bugs have been reported, and at least some folks are using it regularly. The bad news is that this version lacks something that is essential at many sites, including ours: the ability to access remote folders in addition to the INBOX. (This is not needed for those who wish to have saved-msg folders on the local disk or workgroup fileserver, e.g. Novell.) Fortunately, the remote folder code is finally coming together, and Mike hopes to have a version for internal testing next week, with the goal of a general "gamma test" release around May 15th. Because it is very difficult to get user interfaces "right the first time", we anticipate that there will be additional "iterative refinement" of the new remote folder capabilities, as we gain experience with them. In addition, there's still a whole bunch of other stuff we're trying to get done in the next couple of months, for both Unix Pine and PC Pine. I hope all or our patient supporters will find that the upcoming releases have been worth the wait... -teg p.s. To take advantage of the remote folder facility, a new version of IMAPd will be needed, and that will be released at the same time as PC-Pine. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 08:57:55 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25506; Mon, 3 May 93 08:57:55 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26033; Mon, 3 May 93 08:42:08 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mercury.unt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26023; Mon, 3 May 93 08:42:06 -0700 Received: from oberon.nms.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AA21323 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 3 May 1993 10:41:57 -0500 Received: From CC1/WORKQUEUE by oberon.nms.unt.edu via Charon 3.4 with IPX id 100.930503104002.352; 03 May 93 10:40:06 +0600 Message-Id: To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu From: "Mark Thacker...CC1 LAN Manager" Organization: UNT Computing Center Date: 3 May 93 10:37:34 CST6CDT Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5). Well, I hate to do this to the net, but here it goes: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 10:26:15 -0500 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: THACKER@cc1.unt.edu Subject: Returned mail: User unknown ----- Transcript of session follows ----- While talking to mx1.cac.washington.edu: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from oberon.nms.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AA21000 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 3 May 1993 10:26:15 -0500 Received: From CC1/WORKQUEUE by oberon.nms.unt.edu via Charon 3.4 with IPX id 100.930503102350.416; 03 May 93 10:24:24 +0600 Message-Id: To: pine-info-requests@cac.washington.edu From: "Mark Thacker...CC1 LAN Manager" Organization: UNT Computing Center Date: 3 May 93 10:21:53 CST6CDT Subject: Subscribe Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5). Please subscribe Thacker@cc1.unt.edu to the Pine-info mailing list. I must have been deleted some time ago... Thanks Mark Thacker 817-565-2568 ====================================================================== Mark Thacker Bitnet : MARK@UNTVAX CC1 Novell LAN Manager THENET : NTVAXA::MARK Computing Center Internet : MARK@VAXB.ACS.UNT.EDU University of North Texas or : THACKER@CC1.UNT.EDU ====================================================================== ====================================================================== Mark Thacker Bitnet : MARK@UNTVAX CC1 Novell LAN Manager THENET : NTVAXA::MARK Computing Center Internet : MARK@VAXB.ACS.UNT.EDU University of North Texas or : THACKER@CC1.UNT.EDU ====================================================================== From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 12:46:37 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04782; Mon, 3 May 93 12:46:37 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08384; Mon, 3 May 93 12:25:35 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mach1.wlu.ca by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08378; Mon, 3 May 93 12:25:30 -0700 Received: by mach1.wlu.ca (5.65/1.35) id AA11988; Mon, 3 May 93 15:24:08 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 15:14:36 -0300 (EDT) From: bob ellsworth s Subject: To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi : i wonder if any of the pine gurus can comment on the following problem we have with pine3.05. many of our administrators use pine to communicate electronically with large groups of people at our university. we have several people who have defined groups that contain more than 100 addresses. i (as postmaster) have found two instances in which pine seems unwilling to accept more than about 91 addresses. in particular it only expands part of the 91st addresss causing sendmail to complain about unbalanced parenthesis. any help would be appreciated and i can forward an instance of mail being returned because of the above if it would be of any help. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 14:01:52 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07064; Mon, 3 May 93 14:01:52 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08844; Mon, 3 May 93 13:48:23 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from beta.tricity.wsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08838; Mon, 3 May 93 13:48:21 -0700 Received: by beta.tricity.wsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA15589; Mon, 3 May 93 13:48:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 13:40:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Re: your mail To: bob ellsworth s Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Pine should be able to handle 1000 addresses by default. My suggestion would be to duplicate the problem, then grab a copy of your .pine-debug1 file, .addressbook file and instructions to duplicate the problem to pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu or myself... ***************************************************************************** David L. Miller Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1 Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller 100 Sprout Road Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245 ***************************************************************************** On Mon, 3 May 1993, bob ellsworth s wrote: > hi : i wonder if any of the pine gurus can comment on the following > problem we have with pine3.05. > > many of our administrators use pine to communicate electronically with large > groups of people at our university. we have several people who have defined > groups that contain more than 100 addresses. i (as postmaster) have found > two instances in which pine seems unwilling to accept more than about 91 > addresses. in particular it only expands part of the 91st addresss causing > sendmail to complain about unbalanced parenthesis. > > any help would be appreciated and i can forward an instance of mail being > returned because of the above if it would be of any help. > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 15:16:15 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08719; Mon, 3 May 93 15:16:15 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09142; Mon, 3 May 93 14:59:59 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from EMPIRE.CCE.CORNELL.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09136; Mon, 3 May 93 14:59:57 -0700 Received: by cce.cornell.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0nq8Yc-0001NjC; Mon, 3 May 93 18:00 EDT Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 17:58:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Ron Pool Subject: Re: your mail To: "David L. Miller" Cc: bob ellsworth s , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've run into the same problem on our system. It turned out to be sendmail that was at fault. I've replaced sendmail with smail3 and the problem is now gone. -- Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853 Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu On Mon, 3 May 1993, David L. Miller wrote: > Pine should be able to handle 1000 addresses by default. My suggestion > would be to duplicate the problem, then grab a copy of your .pine-debug1 > file, .addressbook file and instructions to duplicate the problem to > pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu or myself... > > ***************************************************************************** > David L. Miller Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu > Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1 > Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller > 100 Sprout Road > Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245 > ***************************************************************************** > > On Mon, 3 May 1993, bob ellsworth s wrote: > > > hi : i wonder if any of the pine gurus can comment on the following > > problem we have with pine3.05. > > > > many of our administrators use pine to communicate electronically with large > > groups of people at our university. we have several people who have defined > > groups that contain more than 100 addresses. i (as postmaster) have found > > two instances in which pine seems unwilling to accept more than about 91 > > addresses. in particular it only expands part of the 91st addresss causing > > sendmail to complain about unbalanced parenthesis. > > > > any help would be appreciated and i can forward an instance of mail being > > returned because of the above if it would be of any help. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 15:37:29 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09489; Mon, 3 May 93 15:37:29 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02872; Mon, 3 May 93 15:22:02 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02866; Mon, 3 May 93 15:22:00 -0700 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18600; Mon, 3 May 93 15:21:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 15:18:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Hubert Subject: Re: your mail To: Ron Pool Cc: "David L. Miller" , bob ellsworth s , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 May 1993, Ron Pool wrote: > Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 17:58:32 -0400 (EDT) > From: Ron Pool > To: "David L. Miller" > Cc: bob ellsworth s , pine-info@cac.washington.edu > Subject: Re: your mail > > I've run into the same problem on our system. It turned out to be > sendmail that was at fault. I've replaced sendmail with smail3 and the > problem is now gone. When using sendmail, it is typically the final delivery program (often /bin/mail) that escapes the From_ lines. There is also a per-mailer flag in sendmail that will cause it to escape the From_s before it passes the message to the mailer, if you'd like. That's the "E" flag. But I think most people rely on the actual deliverer to do the job. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 15:52:07 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09877; Mon, 3 May 93 15:52:07 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09365; Mon, 3 May 93 15:40:04 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from EMPIRE.CCE.CORNELL.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09359; Mon, 3 May 93 15:40:01 -0700 Received: by cce.cornell.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0nq9AH-0001NjC; Mon, 3 May 93 18:39 EDT Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Ron Pool Subject: Re: your mail To: Steve Hubert Cc: "David L. Miller" , bob ellsworth s , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 May 1993, Steve Hubert wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 1993, Ron Pool wrote: > > Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 17:58:32 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Ron Pool > > To: "David L. Miller" > > Cc: bob ellsworth s , pine-info@cac.washington.edu > > Subject: Re: your mail > > > > I've run into the same problem on our system. It turned out to be > > sendmail that was at fault. I've replaced sendmail with smail3 and the > > problem is now gone. > > When using sendmail, it is typically the final delivery program (often > /bin/mail) that escapes the From_ lines. There is also a per-mailer flag in > sendmail that will cause it to escape the From_s before it passes the message > to the mailer, if you'd like. That's the "E" flag. But I think most people > rely on the actual deliverer to do the job. I'll take your word for it. Smail3 comes with a replacement /bin/mail that I installed along with the rest of the smail3 package. -- Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853 Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 16:13:08 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA10218; Mon, 3 May 93 16:13:08 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03433; Mon, 3 May 93 16:00:55 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03427; Mon, 3 May 93 16:00:53 -0700 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23906; Mon, 3 May 93 16:00:52 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Hubert Reply-To: Steve Hubert Subject: Re: your mail (fwd) To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hmm, I seem to have answered the wrong question. My answer about From_ lines doesn't apply to the 1000 user mailing list question. I think somebody asked earlier about messages being split into two because From_'s at the starts of lines weren't being escaped. That's what my response refers to. Hope I didn't confuse too many people! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 18:37:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Ron Pool To: Steve Hubert Cc: "David L. Miller" , bob ellsworth s , pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Re: your mail On Mon, 3 May 1993, Steve Hubert wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 1993, Ron Pool wrote: > > Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 17:58:32 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Ron Pool > > To: "David L. Miller" > > Cc: bob ellsworth s , pine-info@cac.washington.edu > > Subject: Re: your mail > > > > I've run into the same problem on our system. It turned out to be > > sendmail that was at fault. I've replaced sendmail with smail3 and the > > problem is now gone. > > When using sendmail, it is typically the final delivery program (often > /bin/mail) that escapes the From_ lines. There is also a per-mailer flag in > sendmail that will cause it to escape the From_s before it passes the message > to the mailer, if you'd like. That's the "E" flag. But I think most people > rely on the actual deliverer to do the job. I'll take your word for it. Smail3 comes with a replacement /bin/mail that I installed along with the rest of the smail3 package. -- Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853 Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 3 17:17:14 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12134; Mon, 3 May 93 17:17:14 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04493; Mon, 3 May 93 17:04:45 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uwavm.u.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04487; Mon, 3 May 93 17:04:44 -0700 Message-Id: <9305040004.AA04487@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 9939; Mon, 03 May 93 17:03:41 PDT Received: from UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Mailer R2.08 R208004) with BSMTP id 8673; Mon, 03 May 93 17:03:40 PDT Received: from UCSFVM (JM9023) by UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) with BSMTP id 9199; Mon, 03 May 93 17:02:42 PDT Date: Mon, 03 May 93 17:01:08 PDT From: JM9023%UCSFVM.BITNET@uwavm.u.washington.edu Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu unsubscribe pine-info@cac.washington.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 4 03:49:17 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20848; Tue, 4 May 93 03:49:17 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07688; Tue, 4 May 93 03:29:36 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mail.liv.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07682; Tue, 4 May 93 03:29:33 -0700 Received: from liverpool.ac.uk by mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk via Local channel id <05760-0@mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk>; Tue, 4 May 1993 11:27:40 +0100 From: C.Wooff@liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff) Message-Id: <9305041127.ZM5757@mail.liv.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 11:27:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: Your message of May 3, 10:37am References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93) To: Mark Thacker Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Your mail almost certainly failed because you used the wrong username. It should be pine-info-request. For some inscrutable reason you added an "s". You should also note that this username is "automated" a la LISTSERV and you simply mail a one line subscribe request. Chris From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 03:53:24 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20621; Wed, 5 May 93 03:53:24 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22426; Wed, 5 May 93 03:40:34 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22420; Wed, 5 May 93 03:40:30 -0700 Received: from tower.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <01976-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Wed, 5 May 1993 11:30:34 +0100 Received: from pippin.york.ac.uk by tower.york.ac.uk via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:pine-info@cac.washington.edu id AA21729; Wed, 5 May 93 11:40:34 +0100 Date: Wed, 5 May 93 11:40:32 +0000 From: Mike Brudenell To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Bouncing mail Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII A naive question, I realise, from a relative newcomer to the Pine world.... Elm has a "bounce message" feature that works along these lines: A sends message to B B decides the message is more relevant to C B uses "bounce" command to remail message to C C receives mail as if it came directly from A (meaning they can reply straight to it) This would be useful in situations such as our Advisory/Help Desk mail drop, where someone redistributes messages to suitable staff to be dealt with. Without "bounce" the answering member of staff has to firkle around saving the message to a file, starting a new message, reading in the old message, etc., etc.. Is "bounce" deliberately omitted as part of Pine design philosohpy? Or is it up for negotiation with the development team? ;-) Mike Brudenell Computing Service, Univ. of York, UK From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 07:26:47 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23543; Wed, 5 May 93 07:26:47 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23941; Wed, 5 May 93 06:43:26 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from utdallas.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23935; Wed, 5 May 93 06:43:25 -0700 Received: from frog.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (ZMailer 2.1.3 #231) with BLIMP id <74132>; Wed, 5 May 1993 08:43:21 -0500 Subject: Bouncing mail (fwd) From: Billy Barron To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 08:43:04 -0500 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Message-Id: <93May5.084321cdt.74132@utdallas.edu> In reply to Mike Brudenell's message: > >Elm has a "bounce message" feature that works along these lines: > >This would be useful in situations such as our Advisory/Help Desk mail drop, >where someone redistributes messages to suitable staff to be dealt with. >Without "bounce" the answering member of staff has to firkle around saving the >message to a file, starting a new message, reading in the old message, etc., >etc.. > That's funny, I just use "forward". >Is "bounce" deliberately omitted as part of Pine design philosohpy? Or is it up >for negotiation with the development team? ;-) > I've considered "bounce" to be a disfeature. People (including myself) hit things like reply or group reply expecting them to go to the person who did the bounce. I forget about Elm bounce works, but in RiceMail, the person who does the bouncing can add text at the top of the message making it every more confusing.... I think "bounce" causes way more confusion than good. The *only* case where I think "bounce" is a good thing is in the hands of a mailing list moderator.... I hope that "bounce" continues to be omitted in PINE. -- Billy Barron, Information Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas billy@utdallas.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 08:03:07 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24304; Wed, 5 May 93 08:03:07 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24340; Wed, 5 May 93 07:38:03 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24334; Wed, 5 May 93 07:38:02 -0700 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18350; Wed, 5 May 93 07:37:57 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 07:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: Billy Barron Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <93May5.084321cdt.74132@utdallas.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We originally omitted bounce from Pine for exactly the reasons Billy points out: bounce (or "remail") is *dangerous* and has caused considerable embarrassment over the years to unsuspecting recipients who inadvertently reply to the original poster. This can be especially nasty if the original poster is sending via a LISTSERV where the Reply-To: is set to the entire list. (I've even been bitten, and I *know* better!) However, as Mike points out, bounce has a legitimate use, especially for mailing list and news group moderation. Our plan is to provide Bounce, but *only* in Old-Growth (power-user) mode. I hope this will be viewed as an acceptable compromise. -teg On Wed, 5 May 1993, Billy Barron wrote: > In reply to Mike Brudenell's message: > > > >Elm has a "bounce message" feature that works along these lines: > > > >This would be useful in situations such as our Advisory/Help Desk mail drop, > >where someone redistributes messages to suitable staff to be dealt with. > >Without "bounce" the answering member of staff has to firkle around saving the > >message to a file, starting a new message, reading in the old message, etc., > >etc.. > > > That's funny, I just use "forward". > > >Is "bounce" deliberately omitted as part of Pine design philosohpy? Or is it up > >for negotiation with the development team? ;-) > > > I've considered "bounce" to be a disfeature. People (including myself) > hit things like reply or group reply expecting them to go to the person > who did the bounce. I forget about Elm bounce works, but in RiceMail, > the person who does the bouncing can add text at the top of the message > making it every more confusing.... I think "bounce" causes way more > confusion than good. The *only* case where I think "bounce" is a good thing > is in the hands of a mailing list moderator.... > > I hope that "bounce" continues to be omitted in PINE. > > -- > Billy Barron, Information Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas > billy@utdallas.edu > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 08:40:53 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25225; Wed, 5 May 93 08:40:53 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18823; Wed, 5 May 93 08:27:25 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mojo.ots.utexas.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18817; Wed, 5 May 93 08:27:20 -0700 Received: from margo.ots.utexas.edu by mojo.ots.utexas.edu with SMTP id AA24726 (5.65+/IDA-1.3.5 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Wed, 5 May 93 10:27:18 -0500 Received: by margo.ots.utexas.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA04974; Wed, 5 May 93 10:27:17 -0500 From: J.Hayward@utexas.edu (Jeff Hayward) Message-Id: <9305051527.AA04974@margo.ots.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: billy@utdallas.edu (Billy Barron) Date: Wed, 5 May 93 10:27:16 CDT Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <93May5.084321cdt.74132@utdallas.edu>; from "Billy Barron" at May 5, 93 8:43 am Billy Barron writes: That's funny, I just use "forward". I've considered "bounce" to be a disfeature. People (including myself) hit things like reply or group reply expecting them to go to the person who did the bounce. I forget about Elm bounce works, but in RiceMail, the person who does the bouncing can add text at the top of the message making it every more confusing.... I think "bounce" causes way more confusion than good. The *only* case where I think "bounce" is a good thing is in the hands of a mailing list moderator.... ... And postmasters, and people-managers, and... It's fine if you want to keep pine 'idiot-proof'. It's a very fine tool for novices and intermediate skill level users. Bounce is very important in *this* users life though, and is why I use Elm. Some (even most) folks can be trusted with bounce, especially if it's a disable-by-default feature. -- Jeff Hayward From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 09:18:17 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26166; Wed, 5 May 93 09:18:17 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25453; Wed, 5 May 93 09:04:01 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25439; Wed, 5 May 93 09:03:57 -0700 Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa09047; 5 May 93 12:03 EDT Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34) id AA17461; Wed, 5 May 1993 12:03:53 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 12:03:53 -0400 From: "Steven D. Majewski" Message-Id: <199305051603.AA17461@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) To: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu I think an "old-growth" bounce option is an acceptable compromise. I would add that another of those legitimate and necessary uses of bounce is in using e-mail in a business/office environment where there may often be secretaries and other intermediaries inserted into the message stream. Those intermediaries would very much like to be able to remove themselves from that stream - i.e. that don't need to personally dispatch EVERY reply - and that requires that forwarded ( or 'bounced' ) message keep most of their original headers. One reason this may appear to be a 'misfeature' is the lack of standard terminology: "forward", "bounce", "remail" , etc. ( AND lack of presentation/application level standards. ) This also, again, raises the problem of the e-mail user who, while not technically proficient with computers, often needs to do something more complicated with email than the typical user. ( The previous example I brought up was setting up Sender/From/Reply-To headers correctly for secretary sent email - so the boss is the From: , the secretary is the Sender:, and both get replies. ) Pine is a GREAT naieve user mail program, but it tends to get in the way when one has to do a bit more. Perhaps when the 'old-growth' mode gets filled out with a few more features ... ( or perhaps what that sort of job really requires is a "programmable" mailer, where local policies and options can be set up easily. ) -Steve Majewski (804-982-0831) -Univ. of Virginia Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics ------ On May 5, 7:28, Terry Gray wrote: > > We originally omitted bounce from Pine for exactly the reasons Billy > points out: bounce (or "remail") is *dangerous* and has caused > considerable embarrassment over the years to unsuspecting recipients who > inadvertently reply to the original poster. This can be especially > nasty if the original poster is sending via a LISTSERV where the Reply-To: > is set to the entire list. (I've even been bitten, and I *know* better!) > > However, as Mike points out, bounce has a legitimate use, especially for > mailing list and news group moderation. > > Our plan is to provide Bounce, but *only* in Old-Growth (power-user) mode. > > I hope this will be viewed as an acceptable compromise. > > -teg > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 09:47:20 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27037; Wed, 5 May 93 09:47:20 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19219; Wed, 5 May 93 09:36:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19213; Wed, 5 May 93 09:36:43 -0700 Received: from scoat (scoat.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (5.65cVUW/NCL-CMA.1.35 for ) with SMTP; Wed, 5 May 1993 17:35:19 +0100 Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 16:42:46 +0100 (BST) From: "A. Hilborne" Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: Jeff Hayward Cc: Billy Barron , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <9305051527.AA04974@margo.ots.utexas.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 5 May 1993, Jeff Hayward wrote: > It's fine if you want to keep pine 'idiot-proof'. It's a very fine > tool for novices and intermediate skill level users. Bounce is very > important in *this* users life though, and is why I use Elm. Some > (even most) folks can be trusted with bounce, especially if it's a > disable-by-default feature. Many people, including myself, would like a few additional features in Pine. Usually the small "additional set" is slightly different from person to person. If all these changes are put in, even into "old-growth" mode, then one of the fundamental design points of Pine (a simple mailer, with a simple on-line manual) will have been lost. What do the keepers of the "one true Pine" have to say? -- Andrew M. Hilborne Andrew.Hilborne@newcastle.ac.uk Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct) University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office) From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 10:32:51 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28375; Wed, 5 May 93 10:32:51 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26634; Wed, 5 May 93 10:13:50 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uwavm.u.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26628; Wed, 5 May 93 10:13:48 -0700 Message-Id: <9305051713.AA26628@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 1463; Wed, 05 May 93 10:12:46 PDT Received: from RICEVM1.RICE.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Mailer R2.08 R208004) with BSMTP id 9151; Wed, 05 May 93 10:12:46 PDT Received: from ricevm1.rice.edu (NJE origin TROTH@RICEVM1) by RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8666; Wed, 5 May 1993 12:13:42 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 05 May 93 11:56:25 CDT From: Rick Troth Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 5 May 1993 08:43:04 -0500 from > ... but in RiceMail, >the person who does the bouncing can add text at the top of the message >making it every more confusing ... Huh? It's just header editing. I miss it in Pine. :-( And about LISTSERV: the Reply-To can be set to the list or the sender, ignoring or respecting any previous Reply-To. So you may find that if you simply insert a "Reply-To: me@myhost" in the header you won't embarrass your bouncee. Smart and flexible Reply-To handling is just one of the features of a list server that I consider essential. I wish we could get MajorDomo, MAILSERV, and all the various LISTSERV variants to converge. There is an effort along this line. Thanks to the new IBM, most ESA systems today can be suspected of being stable. -- Barton Robinson Stop BASIC before it stops you. -- Dijkstra Stop UNIX before it stops you. -- Troth Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 5 10:42:30 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28752; Wed, 5 May 93 10:42:30 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26864; Wed, 5 May 93 10:29:40 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26858; Wed, 5 May 93 10:29:39 -0700 Received: by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03346; Wed, 5 May 93 10:29:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 10:08:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: "A. Hilborne" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 5 May 1993, A. Hilborne wrote: > If all these changes are put in, even into "old-growth" mode, then one of > the fundamental design points of Pine (a simple mailer, with a simple > on-line manual) will have been lost. What do the keepers of the "one true > Pine" have to say? OK, I'll bite. :) The *theory*, *hope*, and *intent* behind "old-growth" mode was that we could retain the "simple mailer" virtues of Pine for most users, but also accommodate creaping featurism in a way that didn't undermine the original design goal. Whether the old-growth approach will actually achieve that goal remains to be seen, but there are lots of things we'd like to add to meet local needs, and it's clear that there is world-wide interest in many of these enhancements. One of the things we have just been discussing amongst ourselves is related: We have some options that are configurable by separate variables in .pinerc. (There will be more! :) And we have some that are "lumped" together under the feature-level "old-growth". (More of those coming, too.) The issue is whether to lean more to the individual options or more to the lumped options. Example: many have asked for a way to turn off confirmations. This has led to the idea of a "reckless" (or perhaps "clear-cut"?) mode beyond "old-growth" where there would be no confirmations, even for irreversable actions. Alternatively, it has been suggested that even novices should have the option of being reckless. I actually don't agree with the latter view, having seen what happens to support costs when you make razor blades easily available to the infirm and inexperienced, but the general issue is quite valid: to what extent should "old-growth" features be individually enabled vs. lumped. Other examples of power-user features include: bounce, piping to a Unix cmd, aggregate operations, more complex searching, being able to enter a msg number without the "J", etc... The global .pinerc provides a way to establish a baseline config for a site, but we don't want to get to the point where there is a big business opportunity for those wishing to provide personal pine configuration support. :) Comments welcome, as always. -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 6 02:16:54 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20296; Thu, 6 May 93 02:16:54 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23179; Thu, 6 May 93 01:20:00 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23173; Thu, 6 May 93 01:19:13 -0700 Received: from (scawdell.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (5.65cVUW/NCL-CMA.1.35 ) with SMTP; Thu, 6 May 1993 09:19:09 +0100 Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 09:13:00 +0100 (BST) From: "A. Hilborne" Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: Terry Gray Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 5 May 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > OK, I'll bite. :) > .. > .. > > Other examples of power-user features include: bounce, piping to a Unix cmd ******************** There will never be agreement about all these possible features. I believe myself that a Unix mailer that doesn't allow everyone to pipe to a command is seriously disenfranchising the user because s/he can't have easy access to the powerfull Unix tools... -- Andrew M. Hilborne Andrew.Hilborne@newcastle.ac.uk Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct) University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office) From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 6 16:25:59 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15513; Thu, 6 May 93 16:25:59 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20715; Thu, 6 May 93 16:13:14 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from acad.csv.kutztown.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20709; Thu, 6 May 93 16:13:12 -0700 Received: by acad.csv.kutztown.edu (5.61/1.35) id AA22788; Thu, 6 May 93 17:46:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 17:40:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "James D. Gillmore" Subject: Summer Break Help To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What can we do when our students leave for holiday this summer. Is there some way to return mail to the sender when the student is gone? We will be leaving their accounts on the system and I am afraid that the disk will fill up with unread mail. Is there a way after /spool/mail/ get so big that we can return to sender as not accepting mail? ______________________________________________________________________________ Jim Gillmore E-mail gillmore@acad.csv.kutztown.edu Manager Network Services VOICE 215.683.4199 Kutztown University of PA FAX 215.683.4634 LMS Annex Room 105 HOME 717.865.5820 Holidays & Weekends 717.567.3931 If you don't ask you can't find out! From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 6 16:46:55 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16062; Thu, 6 May 93 16:46:55 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20990; Thu, 6 May 93 16:31:30 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20984; Thu, 6 May 93 16:31:28 -0700 Received: from jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu ([128.220.2.5]) by jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu with SMTP id <72846-3>; Thu, 6 May 1993 19:29:26 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 19:28:39 -0400 From: Andy Poling Subject: Re: Summer Break Help To: "James D. Gillmore" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 6 May 1993, James D. Gillmore wrote: > What can we do when our students leave for holiday this summer. Is there > some way to return mail to the sender when the student is gone? We will > be leaving their accounts on the system and I am afraid that the disk will > fill up with unread mail. Is there a way after /spool/mail/ get so > big that we can return to sender as not accepting mail? This isn't really pine-related, but... Yes - disk quotas. -Andy Andy Poling Internet: andy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu UNIX Systems Programmer Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX Homewood Academic Computing Voice: (410)516-8096 Johns Hopkins University UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 7 01:44:16 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24371; Fri, 7 May 93 01:44:16 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24777; Fri, 7 May 93 01:26:45 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24771; Fri, 7 May 93 01:26:40 -0700 Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <07698-0@susssys1.reading.ac.uk>; Fri, 7 May 1993 09:26:10 +0100 Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 09:23:35 +0100 (BST) From: Mike Roch Reply-To: Mike Roch Subject: pine-debug files To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: Andrew Cox Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I approve whole-heartedly with Pine's creating user-debugging files by default, but could the -d0 option be made to mean 0, ie no debug file? Some space-conscious users have grumbled about the cumulative effect of storing 4 x 4k files x thousands of users. (Of course all those 16k's are a drop in the ocean, but if you've just hit your quota or someone else has just filled your disk partition it's one more aggravation!) Mike ============================================================================== Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430 The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 7 01:55:27 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24891; Fri, 7 May 93 01:55:27 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA29326; Fri, 7 May 93 01:40:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA29320; Fri, 7 May 93 01:40:41 -0700 Received: from monera.newcastle.ac.uk (monera.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (5.65cVUW/NCL-CMA.1.35 for ) with SMTP; Fri, 7 May 1993 09:40:34 +0100 Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 09:09:05 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Ward Subject: DOS2UNIX To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks for pine. I'm using pine from PCs - with PCNFS, a batch file and a keyboard stuffer I can be on our Unix box and into pine and use it almost as if it were a DOS program (even nicer if I could rsh it). I also use ReadMail, a DOS off-line mail reader, like many programs on DOS it doesn't care whether lines end in CR, LF or both. But unfortunately it can't append selected messages in Unix format to a file - so when I save messages to mail folders with ReadMail they have CRLF. Pine then identifies the mail folder as of unknown format and I have to run the folder through a DOS2UNIX conversion. Similarly, if I ^R a DOS text file into a message I get lots of ^Ms to delete out. Any chance of pine accepting CRLF as a valid end of line. (Or is the option hidden away somewhere obvious that I haven't seen). Maybe it's a kludge but it should be fairly simple (? :-)) and you must be tackling it in PC pine. I know you are working on a PC Pine, but with a networked PC I think I might still prefer to run pine on the unix box. Thanks Alan Ward Alan.Ward@newcastle.ac.uk Department of Microbiology Medical School University of Newcastle upon Tyne NE2 4HH From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 7 06:50:58 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28848; Fri, 7 May 93 06:50:58 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00685; Fri, 7 May 93 06:31:34 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00679; Fri, 7 May 93 06:31:32 -0700 Received: from cliff.nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP for pine-info@cac.washington.edu (5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA14186; Fri, 7 May 93 09:31:31 -0400 Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27899; Fri, 7 May 93 09:32:02 EDT Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 09:11:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Dobrich Reply-To: Greg Dobrich Subject: two pine 3.07 questions To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII G'day 1. Once pine 3.07 is compiled with debugging turned on how does one turn it off? I commented out the DEBUG= line in makfile.sun, deleted the existing executable, and rebuilt but debugging is still on. 2. On a Sun Sparcstation (SunOS 4.1.2), which is the main mail machine for our domain, we have no /usr/local/lib/pine.conf file and I have optioned the line governing use of domain name only in my .pinerc file no, ie use the host and the domain name in the from line (this was done just as a test -- I really do want it to be from user@domain-name). As a result I expected to see user@hostname.domain-name in the from field but didnt. Why is this? This sun is also the primary name server for our domain and is configured with an MX record for the domain, an A record for the domain listing this hosts ip address along with the A record for the host itself. Thanks, Greg +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Greg Dobrich National Agricultural Library + + gdobrich@nalusda.gov Information Systems Division + + 301/504-6813 Beltsville, MD 20705 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 7 07:26:34 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA29389; Fri, 7 May 93 07:26:34 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26869; Fri, 7 May 93 07:13:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26863; Fri, 7 May 93 07:13:44 -0700 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25350; Fri, 7 May 93 07:13:31 -0700 Date: Fri, 7 May 1993 07:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: pine-debug files To: Mike Roch Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, Andrew Cox In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 7 May 1993, Mike Roch wrote: > I approve whole-heartedly with Pine's creating user-debugging files by > default, but could the -d0 option be made to mean 0, ie no debug file? Yes, definitely. This will be done. -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 7 09:47:08 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03308; Fri, 7 May 93 09:47:08 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01538; Fri, 7 May 93 09:36:48 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from lipschitz.sfasu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01529; Fri, 7 May 93 09:36:46 -0700 Received: by lipschitz.sfasu.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M) id AA03410; Fri, 7 May 93 11:37:26 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 May 93 11:37:26 -0600 From: Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate) Message-Id: <9305071737.AA03410@lipschitz.sfasu.edu> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1.RR) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1.RR) To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Re: pine-debug files >On Fri, 7 May 1993, Mike Roch wrote: > >> I approve whole-heartedly with Pine's creating user-debugging files by >> default, but could the -d0 option be made to mean 0, ie no debug file? > >Yes, definitely. This will be done. > >-teg > > I use alias mail 'pine;rm .pine-debug*' -- kc From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 10 08:57:12 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26388; Mon, 10 May 93 08:57:12 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23739; Mon, 10 May 93 08:22:16 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uaboeing.ua.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23727; Mon, 10 May 93 08:21:58 -0700 Received: by uaboeing.ua.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02482; Mon, 10 May 93 10:21:39 CDT Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 10:12:52 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeff A. Earickson" Subject: mail housecleaning - help! To: pine-info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Pine-Central, This is not really a pine question as such, but comes about because of Pine's marvelous ability to neatly organize one's incoming mail. I save incoming mail as "from.name", where "name" is the person or organization sending me mail. I now have 3 Meg of old mail in 100+ files. --> I need to clean out old mail. How best to do it? <--- I would like to go thru every mail file and delete all messages older than say 6 months. Is there some way to do this from within pine? Some other program out there that does this? A Unix utility that I don't know about? Help! /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ /* Jeff A. Earickson, Ph.D. Consultant, Boeing Computer Services */ /* Alabama Supercomputer Network EMAIL: jeff@uaboeing.ua.edu */ /* PO Box 870346, University of Alabama VOICE: (205) 348-3969 */ /* Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0346 FAX: (205) 348-3993 */ /* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */ /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 10 09:22:32 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27555; Mon, 10 May 93 09:22:32 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24537; Mon, 10 May 93 09:06:31 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24522; Mon, 10 May 93 09:05:05 -0700 Received: by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15864; Mon, 10 May 93 09:05:04 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 09:01:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: mail housecleaning - help! To: "Jeff A. Earickson" Cc: pine-info In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jeff, In a recent pine-info discussion Mike Kuniavsky had the following suggestion: "There's a piece of software called mailclean (in comp.sources.misc volume 22, available at all of the usual places or check archie) which removes "old" (definable) mail after a set period of time from mailboxes, leaving all of the other mail." Hope this helps. -teg On Mon, 10 May 1993, Jeff A. Earickson wrote: > > Dear Pine-Central, > > This is not really a pine question as such, but comes about because of > Pine's marvelous ability to neatly organize one's incoming mail. I save > incoming mail as "from.name", where "name" is the person or organization > sending me mail. I now have 3 Meg of old mail in 100+ files. > > --> I need to clean out old mail. How best to do it? <--- > > I would like to go thru every mail file and delete all messages older than > say 6 months. Is there some way to do this from within pine? Some other > program out there that does this? A Unix utility that I don't know about? > Help! > > /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ > /* Jeff A. Earickson, Ph.D. Consultant, Boeing Computer Services */ > /* Alabama Supercomputer Network EMAIL: jeff@uaboeing.ua.edu */ > /* PO Box 870346, University of Alabama VOICE: (205) 348-3969 */ > /* Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0346 FAX: (205) 348-3993 */ > /* Alabama 13-0-0, 1992 National Football Champions. Roll Tide! */ > /*------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 10 10:01:27 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28484; Mon, 10 May 93 10:01:27 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15775; Mon, 10 May 93 09:37:36 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from lipschitz.sfasu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15769; Mon, 10 May 93 09:37:34 -0700 Received: by lipschitz.sfasu.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M) id AA10981; Mon, 10 May 93 11:38:09 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 11:35:32 -0600 (GMT-0600) From: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" Subject: Re: mail housecleaning - help! To: pine-info In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 10 May 1993, Jeff A. Earickson wrote: > > Dear Pine-Central, > > sending me mail. I now have 3 Meg of old mail in 100+ files. > A related suggestion: How about a menu item to compress (.Z) the selected mail folder? Another related suggestion: How about a .pinerc option to keep each mail folder compressed when not in use? -- kc From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 10 11:35:15 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02257; Mon, 10 May 93 11:35:15 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27094; Mon, 10 May 93 11:18:31 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27088; Mon, 10 May 93 11:18:29 -0700 Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa28071; 10 May 93 14:18 EDT Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34) id AA73806; Mon, 10 May 1993 14:18:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 14:18:21 -0400 From: "Steven D. Majewski" Message-Id: <199305101818.AA73806@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) To: "Jeff A. Earickson" Subject: Re: mail housecleaning - help! Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu On May 10, 10:12, "Jeff A. Earickson" wrote: > > --> I need to clean out old mail. How best to do it? <--- > > I would like to go thru every mail file and delete all messages older than > say 6 months. Is there some way to do this from within pine? Some other > program out there that does this? A Unix utility that I don't know about? > Help! > > -- End of excerpt from "Jeff A. Earickson" For interactive housecleaning: Mush ( Mail Users SHell ) has more powerful selection & sorting & marking capabilities - and commands can be 'piped' together, as in unix shells ( except that, from one mush command to another, what is passed is a message LIST, not the messages, but when you pipe a message list to a unix command, it is the messages that get sent. ) 'pipe -i -s unsubscribe | delete ' for example, will delete all the messages with "unsubscribe" in the subject line ( -i is (following 'grep') case insensitivity ). For Batch housecleaning I've used both 'filter' - a program that comes with the mush package, and 'procmail/formail'. Both are really designed to intercept incomming mail ( via an entry in your .forward file ) and route it to a particluar folder|user|program, but both can be run in "batch" mode. The usual .forward method simply runs the program with a mail message as the stdin. That's where the 'formail' program ( part of 'procmail' package ) comes in handy : formail can split up a mailbox file, and pipe each message to a unix command: 'formail -Univ. of Virginia Department of Molecular Physiology and Biological Physics From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 10 15:16:58 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08409; Mon, 10 May 93 15:16:58 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01184; Mon, 10 May 93 15:06:28 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from is.rice.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01178; Mon, 10 May 93 15:06:26 -0700 Received: from rita-blanca.is.rice.edu by is.rice.edu (AA24073); Mon, 10 May 93 17:06:24 CDT Received: by rita-blanca.is.rice.edu (AA11901); Mon, 10 May 93 17:06:23 CDT Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 16:57:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Rick Troth Subject: Re: mail housecleaning - help! To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: n5vdc@rice.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=Latin-1 In a former life ;-) I was able to log all outbound and (by default) inbound messages into a notebook called yyyymon, where yyyy is the year and mon is the three-letter month. So today's notebook is "1993may". I've found this month-by-month logging very convenient. I can now move all of 1992xxx from my mailbox sub-directory to, say, tape or floppy to put into cold storage. (sure ... compresss it too) But I haven't yet figured out how, with Pine, to automate the rotation of notebook names. -- Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 00:34:11 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19294; Tue, 11 May 93 00:34:11 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA05591; Tue, 11 May 93 00:21:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from Krypton.Mankato.MSUS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA05585; Tue, 11 May 93 00:21:45 -0700 Received: by krypton.mankato.msus.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10963; Tue, 11 May 1993 02:24:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 02:20:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Robert A. Hayden" Subject: Multiple .signatures (suggestion) To: Pine Info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is a suggestion for pine that I just had. It might be even relatively simple to implement. In the address menu, I'd like to be able to associate a specific, alternate signature with an alias. Reason: I am the administrator of a few mailing lists and other project and I use an alias to mail to them because I'm too lazy to typein the whole name (which is the purpose, of course). unfortunately, if I want to have some kind of a different .signature (for example, a reminder of FTP information), I have to ^k out the normal .sig, and then ^r in the replacement. If I could withint the address menu designate a seperate .signature, it would save that hassle. If no .sig is designated, it would simply use the default. Does that make any sense? (it is 2:30 am). [> Robert Hayden ____ <] Black Holes result from God [> \ /__ <] dividing the universe by zero. [> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu \/ / <] [> aq650@slc4.INS.CWRU.Edu \/ <] # include std_disclaimer.h -- (SMURF CODE 1.04): S6 b g+ l- y- z- n+ o+ x- a+/-- u+ v-- j++ (GEEK CODE 0.3): GSS d- p--/-p+ c++ l++ m+/* s-/++ g+ w++ t++ r++ x+ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 07:26:34 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26050; Tue, 11 May 93 07:26:34 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08071; Tue, 11 May 93 06:59:44 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08065; Tue, 11 May 93 06:59:42 -0700 Received: by ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00913; Tue, 11 May 93 09:59:31 EDT Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 09:58:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Schlitt Subject: Re: mail housecleaning - help! To: Rick Troth Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, n5vdc@rice.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It would be nice if mail to the Pine list were in a form that it could be read by Pine. Latin-1?????? /dan Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems dan@ee-mail.engr.ccny.cuny.edu City College of New York (212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 11:21:59 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03475; Tue, 11 May 93 11:21:59 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22259; Tue, 11 May 93 11:03:30 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from ericir.syr.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22253; Tue, 11 May 93 11:03:28 -0700 Received: by ericir.syr.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M) id AA12708; Tue, 11 May 93 13:56:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 13:55:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Virtual Dave Lankes Subject: PINE Binaries for SCO UNIX 3.2.4 To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I was wondering if just the binaries are available? I have limited compiling options. ......................................... : R.David Lankes (a.k.a."Virtual Dave") : : Technical Consultant AskERIC Project : : Coordinator Oliver/AEGIS Project : : Syracuse University : : School of Information Studies : : rdlankes@ericir.syr.edu : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 13:11:06 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07107; Tue, 11 May 93 13:11:06 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22813; Tue, 11 May 93 12:54:24 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from xanth.CS.ORST.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22807; Tue, 11 May 93 12:54:23 -0700 Received: from prism.CS.ORST.EDU by instruction.CS.ORST.EDU (16.6/1.35) id AA10965; Tue, 11 May 93 12:53:37 -0700 Received: by prism.CS.ORST.EDU (16.6/CS-Client) id AA20255; Tue, 11 May 93 12:54:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 12:52:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason R. Thorpe" Subject: Re: PINE Binaries for SCO UNIX 3.2.4 To: Virtual Dave Lankes Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 11 May 1993, Virtual Dave Lankes wrote: > I was wondering if just the binaries are available? I have limited > compiling options. Try ftp.cac.washington.edu. There are several binaries there (including NeXT and Sun), but I'm not sure about one for SCO. They should be in the /pine directory, with the source code. Later...(I hope my memory serves me right! :-) ) /***************************************************************************** Jason R. Thorpe - Weatherford Hall 434 - Corvallis, OR - 97331-1701 Bellnet (503) 737-9533 Internet thorpej@prism.cs.orst.edu *****************************************************************************/ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 14:14:23 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09129; Tue, 11 May 93 14:14:23 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15240; Tue, 11 May 93 14:02:41 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from is.rice.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15234; Tue, 11 May 93 14:02:39 -0700 Received: from rita-blanca.is.rice.edu by is.rice.edu (AA12042); Tue, 11 May 93 16:02:37 CDT Received: by rita-blanca.is.rice.edu (AA12003); Tue, 11 May 93 16:02:36 CDT Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 15:52:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Rick Troth Subject: function keys ... YES! To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: n5vdc@rice.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=Latin-1 Well I'm truly tickled. Thanks to the Pine developers for supporting "the escape sequences for a number of conventions". This is a good thing to do. Can/do you extend these? I notice that you "[do] not use termcap to discover them", and I agree with this, but would suggest augmenting the built-ins with the definitions in termcap, when possible. Can I remap these? The doc doesn't say so. I'm very happy that I don't have to control-this and control-that always, but sometimes I'm on a wierd keyboard and have to fall-back to non-function-key mode. I'd rather STAY in function-key mode. One solution is to have two-stroke alternatives to the function keys: 1 F1 2 F2 3 F3 4 F4 5 F5 6 F6 7 F7 8 F8 9 F9 0 F10 - F11 = F12 I don't especially *like* the above list, but it's nice to have for those times when I'm on a strange terminal (or emulator) or somehow have TERM= temporarily messed-up. -- Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 15:27:48 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11465; Tue, 11 May 93 15:27:48 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16622; Tue, 11 May 93 15:21:02 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from optima.CS.Arizona.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16611; Tue, 11 May 93 15:21:00 -0700 Received: from wolf.CS.Arizona.EDU by optima.CS.Arizona.EDU (5.65c/15) via SMTP id AA22013; Tue, 11 May 1993 15:20:58 MST Received: by wolf.cs.arizona.edu; Tue, 11 May 1993 15:20:57 MST Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 15:15:20 -0700 (MST) From: Jim Davis Reply-To: Jim Davis Subject: Re: function keys ... YES! To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII This is odd. Pine (3.05) didn't want to show me this message, printing [ Part 1 Unknown text "Latin-1" 33 lines ] [ Can not display ... ] but if I toggle 'full headers' on I see the message! Without any character munging or other oddities, as far as I can tell. Now this doesn't seem consistent. Either Pine can't cope with this message, or it really can and I'd rather it just showed it to me without this 'Can not display' business. (Maybe with a grumble about 'Latin-1', if it must.) In either case I don't see why toggling the headers command should make a difference. Is this handled differently in 3.07? -- Jim Davis | "Neddie allow me to humour him with this mallet." jdavis@cs.arizona.edu | -- Bloodnok From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 16:11:26 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12985; Tue, 11 May 93 16:11:26 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23839; Tue, 11 May 93 16:02:40 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from antelope.wcc.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23833; Tue, 11 May 93 16:02:37 -0700 Received: by antelope.wcc.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA23594; Tue, 11 May 1993 17:02:30 -0600 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 17:00:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Brett Spengler Subject: Ports To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am new to the list. Does anyone know of a port to 386bsd or Netbsd, public domain Unix? Thank you. **************************************************************************** * Brett Spengler Internet: spengler@rustlers.cwc.whecn.edu * * Director of Computer Services or spengler@antelope.wcc.edu * * Central Wyoming College Phone: 307-856-9291, ext. 196 * * Snail: 2660 Peck Ave, Riverton, WY 82501 * **************************************************************************** From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 16:41:06 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13772; Tue, 11 May 93 16:41:06 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23955; Tue, 11 May 93 16:28:29 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from beta.tricity.wsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23949; Tue, 11 May 93 16:28:28 -0700 Received: by beta.tricity.wsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA23888; Tue, 11 May 93 16:27:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 16:16:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Re: mail housecleaning - help! To: Rick Troth Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Would it be possible for you to use a standard charset name in the future? It is annoying to have to convert every message you send before I can read it. I know you have asked for Latin-1, but that is not defined in the MIME standard yet. What you should be using is US-ASCII or ISO-8859-x (x=1-9). Until the specification for Latin-1 is published in an RFC and registered with IANA it should not be used in Internet mail (paraphrased from RFC1341, pg20). As for the answer to your question, there were some utilities mentioned on this list a couple days ago that should do the job for you... ***************************************************************************** David L. Miller Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1 Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller 100 Sprout Road Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245 ***************************************************************************** On Mon, 10 May 1993, Rick Troth wrote: > In a former life ;-) > I was able to log all outbound and (by default) > inbound messages into a notebook called yyyymon, > where yyyy is the year and mon is the three-letter month. > So today's notebook is "1993may". > > I've found this month-by-month logging > very convenient. I can now move all of 1992xxx > from my mailbox sub-directory to, say, tape or floppy > to put into cold storage. (sure ... compresss it too) > But I haven't yet figured out how, with Pine, > to automate the rotation of notebook names. > > -- > Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 16:48:17 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13936; Tue, 11 May 93 16:48:17 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24060; Tue, 11 May 93 16:36:39 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from beta.tricity.wsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24054; Tue, 11 May 93 16:36:36 -0700 Received: by beta.tricity.wsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA23944; Tue, 11 May 93 16:36:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 16:29:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Re: function keys ... YES! To: Jim Davis Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I can't say for sure, but I suspect that we are seeing different assumptions in the two modes. If you notice, the original message used an invalid charset=Latin-1 in the Content-type header. In normal mode, pine assumes that the user would rather not see munged up text from some unsupported charset (Kanji, vietnamese, Klingon, etc), whereas in 'full headers' mode the user usually wants to see as much info as possible. Even though the Latin-1 used *could* have been displayed, I think it is safer to assume the worst (especially with novice users). The appropriate charset for the original message would have been US-ASCII or ISO-8859-1. ***************************************************************************** David L. Miller Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1 Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller 100 Sprout Road Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245 ***************************************************************************** On Tue, 11 May 1993, Jim Davis wrote: > This is odd. Pine (3.05) didn't want to show me this message, printing > > [ Part 1 Unknown text "Latin-1" 33 lines ] > [ Can not display ... ] > > but if I toggle 'full headers' on I see the message! Without any > character munging or other oddities, as far as I can tell. > > Now this doesn't seem consistent. Either Pine can't cope with this > message, or it really can and I'd rather it just showed it to me without > this 'Can not display' business. (Maybe with a grumble about 'Latin-1', > if it must.) In either case I don't see why toggling the headers command > should make a difference. > > Is this handled differently in 3.07? > -- > Jim Davis | "Neddie allow me to humour him with this mallet." > jdavis@cs.arizona.edu | -- Bloodnok > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 16:55:46 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14203; Tue, 11 May 93 16:55:46 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24105; Tue, 11 May 93 16:45:35 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from bradley.bradley.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24099; Tue, 11 May 93 16:45:34 -0700 Received: from cs1.bradley.edu by bradley.bradley.edu with SMTP id AA04169 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Tue, 11 May 93 18:45:32 -0500 Received: by cs1.bradley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18719; Tue, 11 May 93 18:45:32 CDT Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 18:44:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Matt Simmons Subject: Re: Ports To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 11 May 1993, Brett Spengler wrote: > I am new to the list. Does anyone know of a port to 386bsd or Netbsd, > public domain Unix? Thank you. While we're at it, does anybody have the svr4 patches for 3.07? Are there any plans to make svr4 one of the standard platforms for pine? zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu Illinois has two seasons: Winter and Construction ___________ _______________________________________^___ ___ ___ ||| ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ | __ ,----\ High Gamma | | | |||| | | | | | | | | | | | | |_____\ Lambda |___| |___|||| |___| |___| |___| | O | O | | | | \ Chi Alpha ||| |___|___| | |__| ) Colony #099 ___________|||______________________________|______________/ Bradley Univ ||| WDW Monorail Driver Wannabe /-------- Peoria IL -----------'''---------------------------------------' Yours in ZAX From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 17:20:51 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15223; Tue, 11 May 93 17:20:51 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18217; Tue, 11 May 93 17:12:12 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from brazos.is.rice.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18211; Tue, 11 May 93 17:12:11 -0700 Received: by brazos.is.rice.edu (AA09401); Tue, 11 May 93 19:12:09 CDT Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 19:08:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Rick Troth Subject: grovel grovel To: Pine Info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, Please accept my apology for generating such annoying mail. I had no idea that *anyone* was having that trouble until today. Thanks to those who pointed out the problem. (and let this be a test to see if I've got it right) -- Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 18:51:32 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16769; Tue, 11 May 93 18:51:32 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24696; Tue, 11 May 93 18:40:13 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from xanth.CS.ORST.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24690; Tue, 11 May 93 18:40:12 -0700 Received: by instruction.CS.ORST.EDU (16.6/1.35) id AA17333; Tue, 11 May 93 18:39:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 18:35:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason R. Thorpe" Subject: Re: function keys ... YES! To: Jim Davis Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 11 May 1993, Jim Davis wrote: > This is odd. Pine (3.05) didn't want to show me this message, printing > > [ Part 1 Unknown text "Latin-1" 33 lines ] > [ Can not display ... ] > > but if I toggle 'full headers' on I see the message! Without any > character munging or other oddities, as far as I can tell. I have the same problem. > Is this handled differently in 3.07? Nope. I'm using 3.07. I believe this has been discussed before here, and I believe that it doesn't work because Latin-1 is not part of the MIME standard...RIGHT? (I think...something like that...) Later... /***************************************************************************** Jason R. Thorpe - Weatherford Hall 434 - Corvallis, OR - 97331-1701 Bellnet (503) 737-9533 Internet thorpej@prism.cs.orst.edu *****************************************************************************/ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 18:58:41 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16837; Tue, 11 May 93 18:58:41 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24726; Tue, 11 May 93 18:44:08 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from xanth.CS.ORST.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24720; Tue, 11 May 93 18:44:06 -0700 Received: by instruction.CS.ORST.EDU (16.6/1.35) id AA17462; Tue, 11 May 93 18:43:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 18:40:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason R. Thorpe" Subject: Re: Ports To: Brett Spengler Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 11 May 1993, Brett Spengler wrote: > I am new to the list. Does anyone know of a port to 386bsd or Netbsd, > public domain Unix? Thank you. Brett... I have compiled Pine 3.05 and 3.07 on both 386BSD and NetBSD machines. The NetBSD compiled without a hitch using the BSD build platform. It took just a little hacking of the makefile for 386BSD...I had to change a compiler flag...I don't remember which one. Anyway, use the BSD platform, and you'll be fine...I used it without any problems until my drive crashed. Later... /***************************************************************************** Jason R. Thorpe - Weatherford Hall 434 - Corvallis, OR - 97331-1701 Bellnet (503) 737-9533 Internet thorpej@prism.cs.orst.edu *****************************************************************************/ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 22:13:47 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19001; Tue, 11 May 93 22:13:47 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from pail.rain.com by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18995; Tue, 11 May 93 22:13:42 -0700 Received: by pail.rain.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.2) id ; Tue, 11 May 93 18:23 PDT Received: from bachelor.cascorp.com by mazama.cascorp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/4.0 Server UUCP) id AA26433; Tue, 11 May 93 18:21:51 -0700 From: David Bradford Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 18:17:56 +0800 (PST) Reply-To: "David L. Bradford" Subject: QUIT enhancement request To: pail!pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I'm using pine 3.05. It'd be nice to be able to: q quit from the folder screen i index (on highlighted folder) from the folder screen not have pine say [Unknown command: "f"] from folder screen (just ignore the "f" there) not have pine say [Unknown command: "m"] from the main menu (again, ignore it) - Dave ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, : : : : David L. Bradford UUCP: cascorp!dbradfor@pail.rain.com : __ | : : CAD Tech Support CASCADE CORPORATION, Portland, OR, USA : |__\_| : : (503) 669-6285 Manufacturers of Lift Truck Attachments : @--@|__ : : : : ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 22:05:49 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18957; Tue, 11 May 93 22:05:49 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from pail.rain.com by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18950; Tue, 11 May 93 22:05:41 -0700 Received: by pail.rain.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.2) id ; Tue, 11 May 93 11:42 PDT Received: from bachelor.cascorp.com by mazama.cascorp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/4.0 Server UUCP) id AA28777; Tue, 11 May 93 11:06:20 -0700 From: David Bradford Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 11:00:42 +0800 (PST) Reply-To: "David L. Bradford" Subject: Re: mail housecleaning - help! To: pail!pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I get the below message from pine for Rick Troth's mail: >> [Part 1, Unknown text "Latin-1" 18 lines] >> [Can not display this part. Use the "A" command to save in a file] But if I do a forward or a reply (include message), it puts the text in there! It says it can't display it, but yet it includes it. What gives? - Dave ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, : : : : David L. Bradford UUCP: cascorp!dbradfor@pail.rain.com : __ | : : CAD Tech Support CASCADE CORPORATION, Portland, OR, USA : |__\_| : : (503) 669-6285 Manufacturers of Lift Truck Attachments : @--@|__ : : : : ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 11 22:52:22 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19461; Tue, 11 May 93 22:52:22 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25494; Tue, 11 May 93 22:44:51 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from stargate.np.ac.sg by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25488; Tue, 11 May 93 22:44:47 -0700 Message-Id: <9305120544.AA25488@mx2.cac.washington.edu> Subject: "Latin-1" mail ... To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 13:44:42 -0800 (SST) From: Ng Pheng Siong X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 254 Just for info, Elm 2.4.21 hooked with MetaMail 2.4 had no problem with Rick Troth's mail. BTW, is there an ftp'able SVR4 port of Pine? - PS -- Ng Pheng Siong * ngps@np.ac.sg * npngps@solomon.technet.sg Computer Centre, Ngee Ann Polytechnic, Singapore From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 12 00:59:16 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21605; Wed, 12 May 93 00:59:16 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20781; Wed, 12 May 93 00:40:52 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from jyu.fi by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20775; Wed, 12 May 93 00:40:50 -0700 Received: from [130.234.16.13] (kallio.jyu.fi) by jyu.fi with SMTP id AA27606 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 12 May 1993 10:40:44 +0300 Message-Id: <199305120740.AA27606@jyu.fi> Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 10:42:57 +0200 To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu From: kallio@jyu.fi (Seppo Kallio) Subject: pine (pico) enhancement request X-Charset: ISO_8859-1 X-Char-Esc: 29 1. The vt100 and vt200 terminals have select, insert, remove keys. They are easy to use. pine (pico) should work with them. The C-k is C-u not enough 2. There could be some Do-key and some extra commands with english words Compare to MAX/VMS eve (tpu) editor. It has some direct keys to do mos editing - but there is alo the do + english word command It is easy for people to learn. I do not mean the Do key on VT200. It could be any key in princible. 3. In Address book the commands are a little complicated. There are ? Help M Main Menu T AddToList - Prev Pg A Add D Delete S CreateList L Print SPACE Next Pg E Edit W Where is Why is there two types of lists? I see only one type actually: nickname,comment,list of user address(es) If there is more than one name in the "list" it is a list. Maybe there is some programming (mail system) technical reason, but why irritate users with it? After this you need few simple commands: 1. create new nicname 2. add more addresses to the nicname (the line cursor is pointing) 3. edit (the field cursor is pointing, address, nicname, name) 4. print address book 5. delete (the field cursor is pointing, address,nicname,...) I think in elm there is only one type of address book entry. Why have you added one more? -- +----- Seppo Kallio --------+---- kallio@jyu.fi ------- Eudora mailer ----+ ! Computing Centre ! Fax +358-41-603611 Phone +358-41-603606 ! ! University of Jyvaskyla ! Telex 28218 JYU FI ! +------- Finland -----------+- maclista@jyu.fi Mac-k{ytt{jien postiosoite + From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 12 06:11:56 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26605; Wed, 12 May 93 06:11:56 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27150; Wed, 12 May 93 05:58:40 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mach1.wlu.ca by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27144; Wed, 12 May 93 05:58:38 -0700 Received: by mach1.wlu.ca (5.65/1.35) id AA08897; Wed, 12 May 93 08:57:38 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 08:56:06 -0300 (EDT) From: bob ellsworth s Reply-To: bob ellsworth s Subject: quoted-printable mime encoding To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: nora znotinas F , Arleen Greenwood s Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII hi : does pine have problems with the "quoted-printable" form of mime encoding. i ask because of the following context: we are using pine on a symetry sequent box running ptx 2.2.0. we have versions of both wordperfect 5.0 and wordperfect 5.1 available. we have no problem sending wp5.0 files as attachments and pine uses BASE64 as the encoding method for these files. when we attempt to send wp51 files as attachments pine seems to pick the files up properly (it gets the right size) but only the first few bytes (about 6 or 7 bytes) are recieved by the recipient. pine is using quoted-printable to encode these wp51 files. Any help would be appreciated. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 12 06:41:15 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26998; Wed, 12 May 93 06:41:15 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23119; Wed, 12 May 93 06:29:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23113; Wed, 12 May 93 06:29:44 -0700 Message-Id: <9305121329.AA23113@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by danpost4.uni-c.dk id <18842-0@danpost4.uni-c.dk>; Wed, 12 May 1993 15:28:26 +0200 Subject: Re: function keys ... YES! To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:28:23 +0200 (MET DST) In-Reply-To: from "Jason R. Thorpe" at May 11, 93 06:35:31 pm Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55 X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 285 From: Erik Lawaetz > I believe this has been discussed before here, and I believe that it > doesn't work because Latin-1 is not part of the MIME standard...RIGHT? (I > think...something like that...) Yep, Latin-1 is not part of MIME. Currently recognized char sets are US-ASCII and ISO-8859-x. --Erik From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 12 10:24:01 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02575; Wed, 12 May 93 10:24:01 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28141; Wed, 12 May 93 10:10:53 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from beta.tricity.wsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28135; Wed, 12 May 93 10:10:50 -0700 Received: by beta.tricity.wsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA01187; Wed, 12 May 93 10:10:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 10:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Re: quoted-printable mime encoding To: bob ellsworth s Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Pine 3.0x has some known "quirks" in MIME encoding/decoding. Pine 4.0 will have much improved MIME support... ***************************************************************************** David L. Miller Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1 Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller 100 Sprout Road Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245 ***************************************************************************** On Wed, 12 May 1993, bob ellsworth s wrote: > hi : does pine have problems with the "quoted-printable" form of mime > encoding. i ask because of the following context: > > we are using pine on a symetry sequent box running ptx 2.2.0. we have > versions of both wordperfect 5.0 and wordperfect 5.1 available. we have no > problem sending wp5.0 files as attachments and pine uses BASE64 as the > encoding method for these files. when we attempt to send wp51 files as > attachments pine seems to pick the files up properly (it gets the right > size) but only the first few bytes (about 6 or 7 bytes) are recieved by the > recipient. pine is using quoted-printable to encode these wp51 files. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 12 10:46:41 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03249; Wed, 12 May 93 10:46:41 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28270; Wed, 12 May 93 10:34:18 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from beta.tricity.wsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28264; Wed, 12 May 93 10:34:16 -0700 Received: by beta.tricity.wsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA01272; Wed, 12 May 93 10:34:03 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Re: pine (pico) enhancement request To: Seppo Kallio Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <199305120740.AA27606@jyu.fi> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 May 1993, Seppo Kallio wrote: > > 1. The vt100 and vt200 terminals have select, insert, remove keys. They > are easy to use. pine (pico) should work with them. The C-k is C-u > not enough > Not all terminals support these features. One of the key objectives of the pine design was to make it consistent for everyone. I suppose that the above functionality could be turned on with function-key support though. > 2. There could be some Do-key and some extra commands with english words > Compare to MAX/VMS eve (tpu) editor. It has some direct keys > to do mos editing - but there is alo the do + english word command > It is easy for people to learn. I do not mean the Do key on VT200. > It could be any key in princible. > Another objective of Pine is to keep it as simple as possible. If you start adding a bunch of extended commands, you would be better off to just use emacs... > 3. In Address book the commands are a little complicated. There are > > ? Help M Main Menu T AddToList - Prev Pg A Add D Delete > S CreateList L Print SPACE Next Pg E Edit W Where is > > Why is there two types of lists? I see only one type actually: > > nickname,comment,list of user address(es) > > If there is more than one name in the "list" it is a list. > > Maybe there is some programming (mail system) technical reason, but why > irritate users with it? > There are not two types of lists. There are single entries and distribution lists. Although I suppose you could make single entries a list of one, it makes more sense to me to distinguish between them. Our users, most of whom are novices, seem to have no trouble with the way it is set up now... > After this you need few simple commands: > > 1. create new nicname > 2. add more addresses to the nicname (the line cursor is pointing) > 3. edit (the field cursor is pointing, address, nicname, name) > 4. print address book > 5. delete (the field cursor is pointing, address,nicname,...) > Where does this differ from what is there now? > I think in elm there is only one type of address book entry. Why have you > added one more? > -- > +----- Seppo Kallio --------+---- kallio@jyu.fi ------- Eudora mailer ----+ > ! Computing Centre ! Fax +358-41-603611 Phone +358-41-603606 ! > ! University of Jyvaskyla ! Telex 28218 JYU FI ! > +------- Finland -----------+- maclista@jyu.fi Mac-k{ytt{jien postiosoite + > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 12 12:27:44 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06510; Wed, 12 May 93 12:27:44 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26867; Wed, 12 May 93 10:52:08 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uwavm.u.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26861; Wed, 12 May 93 10:52:06 -0700 Message-Id: <9305121752.AA26861@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 1278; Wed, 12 May 93 10:50:59 PDT Received: from RICEVM1.RICE.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Mailer R2.08 R208004) with BSMTP id 1590; Wed, 12 May 93 10:50:59 PDT Received: from ricevm1.rice.edu (NJE origin TROTH@RICEVM1) by RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5109; Wed, 12 May 1993 12:51:49 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 12 May 93 12:26:57 CDT From: Rick Troth Subject: Re: CHARSET considerations To: John C Klensin , pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: dan@EES1A0.ENGR.CCNY.CUNY.EDU, ietf-822@DIMACS.RUTGERS.EDU In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 11 May 1993 21:05:35 -0400 (EDT) from Hi, John, > However, please >review the archives before you do so, as most of the known horses in >this area have been kicked to death, and extensively post-death, many >times already. I've been doing that, but it has taken no small amount of time. Perhaps I should have tried to shorten the path and not review ALL of the ietf-822 archives. But you are correct, and I'd appreciate it if more folks did not make the mistake that I appear to be making. >If the issue is how character sets are defined or what they are, please >take the conversation elsewhere, possibly to ietf-charsets@innosoft.com >(subscriptions to ietf-charsets-request@innosoft.com): character sets >have been explicitly removed from the scope of this WG and its mailing >list. Thanks for the corrected reference. Look ... I sincerely don't mean to be a whiner or to beat the skeletal remains of yet-another-dead-horse, but I DON'T see closure on it and DO see a solution / solution(s). But I am a newcomer (for reasons which escape me). >> Dan, I'm surprised that you report trouble reading "CHARSET= >>Latin-1" mail with Pine. > >Any version of anything that proports to be MIME and contains > text/plain; charset=latin-1 >is badly broken; "latin-1" is not a registered, or registerable, entity. Any user of Pine 3.05 (and as far as I can tell 3.07 or 2.x) can shoot themself in the foot (head if you prefer) by setting character-set = Zeldas_private_codepage. Should the Pine developers remove this feature? I think not. Leave it open-ended. Pine tries to do MIME; that's how this thread crossed. Sorry. Small ROT is that software should generate the cleanest possible protocol while accepting as much as possible and silently ignoring whatever doesn't make sense but is otherwise harmless. So, yeah, my .pinerc was broken and I'm a jerk for ruining everyone's day, but that's balanced against my former life on a US-ASCII_is_foreign system along with the legitimate goal of leaving Pine (and everything) as open ended as possible. I'll subscribe to ietf-charsets and =just listen= until I have some handle on the reality there. Meantime, every MIME compliant MUA is causing numerous (not all) mail gateways to deliver incorrect data. I WOULD NOT ask any of these MUAs to stop [mis]labelling their mail, but I would like to get the problem corrected. A short-term solution is to leave CHARSET= off if it's not absolutely essential. > --john Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 12 12:44:58 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07027; Wed, 12 May 93 12:44:58 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28854; Wed, 12 May 93 12:36:43 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uwavm.u.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28848; Wed, 12 May 93 12:36:41 -0700 Resent-Message-Id: <9305121936.AA28848@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Message-Id: <9305121936.AA28848@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 2089; Wed, 12 May 93 12:35:36 PDT Received: from RICEVM1.RICE.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Mailer R2.08 R208004) with BSMTP id 4771; Wed, 12 May 93 12:35:35 PDT Received: from ricevm1.rice.edu (NJE origin TROTH@RICEVM1) by RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 0812; Wed, 12 May 1993 14:36:32 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Date: Wed, 12 May 93 14:35:06 CDT Resent-From: Rick Troth Resent-To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 15:52:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Rick Troth Subject: function keys ... YES! To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: n5vdc@rice.edu Sorry for the confusion resulting from "Latin-1". Here's the original message, hopefully in readable form. Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Well I'm truly tickled. Thanks to the Pine developers for supporting "the escape sequences for a number of conventions". This is a good thing to do. Can/do you extend these? I notice that you "[do] not use termcap to discover them", and I agree with this, but would suggest augmenting the built-ins with the definitions in termcap, when possible. Can I remap these? The doc doesn't say so. I'm very happy that I don't have to control-this and control-that always, but sometimes I'm on a wierd keyboard and have to fall-back to non-function-key mode. I'd rather STAY in function-key mode. One solution is to have two-stroke alternatives to the function keys: 1 F1 2 F2 3 F3 4 F4 5 F5 6 F6 7 F7 8 F8 9 F9 0 F10 - F11 = F12 I don't especially *like* the above list, but it's nice to have for those times when I'm on a strange terminal (or emulator) or somehow have TERM= temporarily messed-up. -- Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 00:52:13 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26830; Thu, 13 May 93 00:52:13 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06062; Thu, 13 May 93 00:38:10 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from jyu.fi by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06056; Thu, 13 May 93 00:38:06 -0700 Received: from [130.234.16.13] (kallio.jyu.fi) by jyu.fi with SMTP id AA02806 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 13 May 1993 10:38:00 +0300 Message-Id: <199305130738.AA02806@jyu.fi> Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 10:40:15 +0200 To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu From: kallio@jyu.fi (Seppo Kallio) Subject: Re: pine (pico) enhancement request X-Charset: ISO_8859-1 X-Char-Esc: 29 >On Wed, 12 May 1993, Seppo Kallio wrote: >> 1. The vt100 and vt200 terminals have select, insert, remove keys. They >> are easy to use. pine (pico) should work with them. The C-k is C-u >> not enough >> >Not all terminals support these features. One of the key objectives of >the pine design was to make it consistent for everyone. I suppose that >the above functionality could be turned on with function-key support >though. All vt100 and vt200 terminals do have those keys and good vt100 & vt200 emulators also. I do not see why vt200 users are not allowed to use the select/remove/insert keys when they are much more easy to use than the C-k/C-u keys. >> 2. There could be some Do-key and some extra commands with english words >Another objective of Pine is to keep it as simple as possible. If you >start adding a bunch of extended commands, you would be better off to just >use emacs... Emacs is awfull for a novice to use - compare it to VAX/VMS EVE/TPU! You mean that program with a lot of possibilities can not be simple to use? I disagree. Program can be big and include a lot of featuers and be very easy to use at the same time. EVE/TPU in VAX/VMS is one example of that kind of program. It includes most emacs features but it is quite simple to use. >> After this you need few simple commands: >> >> 1. create new nicname >> 2. add more addresses to the nicname (the line cursor is pointing) >> 3. edit (the field cursor is pointing, address, nicname, name) >> 4. print address book >> 5. delete (the field cursor is pointing, address,nicname,...) >> >Where does this differ from what is there now? >> ? Help M Main Menu T AddToList - Prev Pg A Add D Delete >> S CreateList L Print SPACE Next Pg E Edit W Where 1. Now you have 2 create commands: Add and CreateList In my succestion there is only one. 2. Novice has a problem if he wants add one name to the alias, he must delete it and create a list. In my succestion there is no problem. 3. The function of command Add is not very clear: Does it add a name to list or new alias? 4. When you create a list command is CreateList (That is clear) When you create a alias, the command is Add (Add what and where? That is not clear if you do not read docs, and they do not.) Maybe the biggest problem is in the command names. But I do not see any reason for why there is alias and list. Why there is two types of entries in the address book when only one is needed? -- +----- Seppo Kallio --------+---- kallio@jyu.fi ------- Eudora mailer ----+ ! Computing Centre ! Fax +358-41-603611 Phone +358-41-603606 ! ! University of Jyvaskyla ! Telex 28218 JYU FI ! +------- Finland -----------+- maclista@jyu.fi Mac-k{ytt{jien postiosoite + From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 02:40:51 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28833; Thu, 13 May 93 02:40:51 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02583; Thu, 13 May 93 02:27:31 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02577; Thu, 13 May 93 02:27:27 -0700 Received: from scoat (scoat.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (5.65cVUW/NCL-CMA.1.35 for ) with SMTP; Thu, 13 May 1993 10:27:21 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 10:24:45 +0100 (BST) From: "A. Hilborne" Subject: Re: quoted-printable mime encoding To: "David L. Miller" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 12 May 1993, David L. Miller wrote: > Pine 3.0x has some known "quirks" in MIME encoding/decoding. Pine 4.0 > will have much improved MIME support... I'd like to ask a question about this support. Will it include fall-back to metamail? This would seem to be desirable so that if, say, our site puts in new support for viewing and sending faxes using MIME, it can be immediately available with all our mailers. -- Andrew M. Hilborne Andrew.Hilborne@newcastle.ac.uk Computing Service Tel: +44 91 222 8226 (direct) University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. +44 91 222 8039 (Comp Service office) From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 07:47:12 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03670; Thu, 13 May 93 07:47:12 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08906; Thu, 13 May 93 07:31:57 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08900; Thu, 13 May 93 07:31:56 -0700 Received: by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24121; Thu, 13 May 93 07:31:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 07:26:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: quoted-printable mime encoding To: "A. Hilborne" Cc: "David L. Miller" , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 13 May 1993, A. Hilborne wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 1993, David L. Miller wrote: > > > Pine 3.0x has some known "quirks" in MIME encoding/decoding. Pine 4.0 > > will have much improved MIME support... > > I'd like to ask a question about this support. Will it include fall-back > to metamail? This would seem to be desirable so that if, say, our site > puts in new support for viewing and sending faxes using MIME, it can be > immediately available with all our mailers. Andrew, The intention is to implement the "mailcap" facility, similar to what is in Nathaniel's metamail distribution. It is indeed our goal to be able to add support for new subtypes without changing Pine. Ideally, we'd like to be able to handle printing as well as viewing via the mailcap facility, and have a way to pipe output back into a Pine browser window, so you do support PEM, etc, by just adding the appropriate table entry. (It's much easier if you can assume a multi-window display.) We haven't yet determined whether we can achieve those functional goals in a way that is upward compatible with the existing mailcap definition. -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 11:26:35 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11075; Thu, 13 May 93 11:26:35 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13020; Thu, 13 May 93 11:15:42 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from livbird.liv.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13014; Thu, 13 May 93 11:15:39 -0700 Received: from liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk by liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk with Local-SMTP (PP) id <11956-0@liverbird.liverpool.ac.uk>; Thu, 13 May 1993 19:06:10 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 19:05:28 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Thew Reply-To: Alan Thew Subject: Problems with blank lines left at end of pine mail items To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I have done some tests on this, even using other editors etc but pine seems to insist on leaving a couple of blank lines at the end of each mail item. This causes problems with some list management software that we run here. Other MUAs don't seem to have this feature/problem. Any ideas? Thanks Alan Thew From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 11:31:38 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11185; Thu, 13 May 93 11:31:38 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13167; Thu, 13 May 93 11:21:17 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13161; Thu, 13 May 93 11:21:14 -0700 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07646; Thu, 13 May 1993 14:21:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 14:20:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Laurence Lundblade Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: quoted-printable mime encoding To: bob ellsworth s Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, nora znotinas F , Arleen Greenwood s In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII This may be a bug in Pine 3.05. There was a version of Pine that had a bug attaching files with NULL characters in them. It would behave as you described. I think it was fixed in a version after 3.05, though I don't know for certain if it's in Pine 3.07. I'd suggest giving it a try. Laurence Lundblade lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu or lgl@cac.washington.edu (both forward to same place) Blacksburg, Virginia or Seattle, Washington On Wed, 12 May 1993, bob ellsworth s wrote: > > hi : does pine have problems with the "quoted-printable" form of mime > encoding. i ask because of the following context: > > we are using pine on a symetry sequent box running ptx 2.2.0. we have > versions of both wordperfect 5.0 and wordperfect 5.1 available. we have no > problem sending wp5.0 files as attachments and pine uses BASE64 as the > encoding method for these files. when we attempt to send wp51 files as > attachments pine seems to pick the files up properly (it gets the right > size) but only the first few bytes (about 6 or 7 bytes) are recieved by the > recipient. pine is using quoted-printable to encode these wp51 files. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 17:05:58 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21323; Thu, 13 May 93 17:05:58 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18421; Thu, 13 May 93 16:56:00 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18415; Thu, 13 May 93 16:55:58 -0700 Received: by norman.nwnet.net (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09237; Thu, 13 May 93 16:55:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 16:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On the old-growth mode: Seems like things that change the behavior of existing commands should have separate options in the .pinerc and not be lumped in to old-growth mode. An example of this would be turning off the confirmation questions (only silly for some users). Additions to Pine, like adding the bounce command, the pipe command, MIME style forwarding, additional information displays etc. can be lumped together. The main reason to relegate these to old-growth mode is so the novice user will not be confronted by more commands than they can make sense of. On the bounce command: Seems like there's several things the bounce command can be used for: - resending a message that didn't make it because of an incorrect address - management of a mailing list - others?? Resending a returned message currently involves pulling it out of sent-mail and sending it on. When this is done the original sender and the "re-sender" are the same. Maybe the resend command can be added with a confirmation question (or even prohibition) if the original sender and the "re-sender" are different. LL From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 17:30:39 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21677; Thu, 13 May 93 17:30:39 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18856; Thu, 13 May 93 17:19:18 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18850; Thu, 13 May 93 17:19:16 -0700 Received: by norman.nwnet.net (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16481; Thu, 13 May 93 17:19:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 17:14:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Lundblade Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: function keys ... YES! To: "Jason R. Thorpe" Cc: Jim Davis , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Latin-1 is just a more people friendly name for ISO-8859-1. For example Pine describes iso-8859-6 as "Latin and Arabic text". The valid setting for the character-set parameter are "iso-8859-x" and us-ascii. Pine understands a little about these character sets, like the fact that iso-8859-1 through iso-8859-9 all have the lower 128 characters the same as us-ascii. In this case Pine will display those characters that it can and won't display the ones it can't. For example, if you got a message in iso-8859-6 it would display the us-ascii characters but term the Arabic characters into "_", unless of course you had locally set your character set to iso-8859-6. In that case Pine would send all the Arabic (8 bit) characters to your screen). When you choose a character set that Pine knows nothing about, like "Latin-1" or perhaps "ISO-THAI" (if it existed) then it assumes it is not possible to display it on the screen at all. That is, unless the character set of the message matches the characters set that Pine is configured for. This is why none of us but Rick could see Rick's message. The short of it is, if you want to do Latin-1 or ISO-8859-1 text and you have an X-terminal or a vt200, vt300... terminal that supports this characters set, Pine will work, but you should have "character-set=iso-8859-1" in your .pinerc. There are however, a few bugs with this, such as postponing the message. Most of this is based on what is specified in the MIME standard for handling various character sets. Hope this makes sense! Laurence Lundblade lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu or lgl@cac.washington.edu (both forward to same place) Blacksburg, Virginia or Seattle, Washington On Tue, 11 May 1993, Jason R. Thorpe wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 1993, Jim Davis wrote: > > > This is odd. Pine (3.05) didn't want to show me this message, printing > > > > [ Part 1 Unknown text "Latin-1" 33 lines ] > > [ Can not display ... ] > > > > but if I toggle 'full headers' on I see the message! Without any > > character munging or other oddities, as far as I can tell. > > I have the same problem. > > > Is this handled differently in 3.07? > > Nope. I'm using 3.07. > > I believe this has been discussed before here, and I believe that it > doesn't work because Latin-1 is not part of the MIME standard...RIGHT? (I > think...something like that...) > > Later... > > /***************************************************************************** > Jason R. Thorpe - Weatherford Hall 434 - Corvallis, OR - 97331-1701 > Bellnet (503) 737-9533 Internet thorpej@prism.cs.orst.edu > *****************************************************************************/ > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 13 18:21:12 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22675; Thu, 13 May 93 18:21:12 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19303; Thu, 13 May 93 18:14:36 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19297; Thu, 13 May 93 18:14:35 -0700 Received: by phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu (4.1/1.34) id AA16054; Thu, 13 May 93 21:14:33 EDT From: qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu (James Ralston Crawford) Message-Id: <9305140114.AA16054@phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 21:14:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Laurence Lundblade" at May 13, 93 04:39:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 867 Laurence Lundblade writes: > Seems like there's several things the bounce command can be used for: > - resending a message that didn't make it because of an incorrect > address > - management of a mailing list > - others?? Rerouting messages that were sent to the "wrong" person. If I ([y]) receive a message from user [x] that really is more appropriate for user [z], I want to change: [x] -> [y] ...to: [x] -> [z] Using forward is unacceptable, because it instead produces: [x] -> [y] -> [z] I don't often have cause to do something like this, but when I do, "bounce" is about the only thing that does it effectively. James -- James Ralston Crawford \ System Administrator (cislabs) \ Co-AS (BEH) qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu \ qralston+@pitt.edu \ qralston@pittvms.bitnet "Computer, you and I need to have a little talk." - O'Brien, ST:DS9 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 14 06:17:23 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02848; Fri, 14 May 93 06:17:23 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23674; Fri, 14 May 93 06:05:28 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from QUCDN.QueensU.CA by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23668; Fri, 14 May 93 06:05:11 -0700 Message-Id: <9305141305.AA23668@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA by QUCDN.QueensU.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5687; Fri, 14 May 93 09:05:05 EDT Received: from QUCDN.QueensU.CA (NJE origin HOLNESSI@QUCDN) by QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 0987; Fri, 14 May 1993 09:05:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 09:00:10 EDT From: "Iain D. Holness" Subject: What is the status of the Pine DOS port project ? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu X-Acknowledge-To: Any information would be appreciated on this topic, as I haven't got a clue about the status myself. Iain /=======================================================\ Iain D. Holness Office Systems and Information Technology Group Queen's Univerity Computing and Communications Services Kingston, Ontario From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 14 08:13:57 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04700; Fri, 14 May 93 08:13:57 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24548; Fri, 14 May 93 08:01:24 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mojo.ots.utexas.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24542; Fri, 14 May 93 08:01:22 -0700 Received: by mojo.ots.utexas.edu id AA19942 (5.65+/IDA-1.3.5 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Fri, 14 May 93 10:01:17 -0500 From: Jeff Hayward Message-Id: <9305141501.AA19942@mojo.ots.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: Bouncing mail (fwd) To: qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu (James Ralston Crawford) Date: Fri, 14 May 93 10:01:16 CDT Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <9305140114.AA16054@phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu>; from "James Ralston Crawford" at May 13, 93 9:14 pm James Ralston Crawford writes: Rerouting messages that were sent to the "wrong" person. If I ([y]) receive a message from user [x] that really is more appropriate for user [z], I want to change: This is in fact quite common. There are a growing number of people who read mail from a generic address mailbox and direct it to the appropriate party (some Postmaster mail, user help desk, "general info", "email receptionist", customer service, etc.) "Bounce" really is the best for these cases. -- Jeff Hayward From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 14 14:49:35 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20072; Fri, 14 May 93 14:49:35 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11913; Fri, 14 May 93 14:30:06 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11907; Fri, 14 May 93 14:30:04 -0700 Received: from ADAM.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA07363; Fri, 14 May 93 17:29:28 EDT Received: by adam.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA22544; Fri, 14 May 93 17:29:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 May 93 17:29:24 -0400 Message-Id: <9305142129.AA22544@adam.MIT.EDU> From: scs@adam.mit.edu (Steve Summit) To: TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Re: CHARSET considerations In-Reply-To: <9305121752.AA00650@dimacs.rutgers.edu> Cc: ietf-822@dimacs.rutgers.edu, ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu, scs@adam.mit.edu Reply-To: ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, scs@adam.mit.edu In <9305121752.AA00650@dimacs.rutgers.edu>, Rick wrote: > Any user of Pine 3.05 (and as far as I can tell 3.07 or 2.x) > can shoot themself in the foot (head if you prefer) by setting > character-set = Zeldas_private_codepage. This is almost certainly a bad idea, especially if (as Rick implied in another part of the referenced message) the user can do so by setting a default charset value in a user configuration file somewhere. (If users dink with the message headers themselves, all bets are off.) > Should the Pine developers remove this feature? I'm not sure what the feature in question is, but if it's something which lets users specify the value to be sent out as the MIME Content-Type: charset, I think it's a bad idea, and should be removed or significantly altered. An easy mistake to make (I speak from experience) is to assume that the charset parameter on a MIME Content-Type: line encodes the character set used by the entity composing the message, or the character set to be used by the entity displaying the message. I find that the best way to think about charset is that it is *neither*. charset is an octet-based encoding used during message transfer; it need bear no relation to the composing or viewing character sets. In the most general case, a message will be composed using some native character set, translated automatically to a MIME-registered charset, and translated at the other end into a native display character set. It should be more likely that the charset value be selected by an automaton, not by a human. (If anyone finds the above paragraph startling, you're welcome to write to me for clarification. I'm not going to prolong this message with additional explanations right now.) It's not necessarily *wrong* to think of charset as having something to do with the composing or viewing character set (in many cases, not coincidentally, all three will be identical), but it is very easy to make conceptual mistakes, implement nonconformant software, or just generally misunderstand how MIME is supposed to work if you don't explicitly separate in your mind the concepts of composing/viewing character sets and transmission charsets. (You'll notice that I reinforce this distinction in my own head and in this message by using the terms "character set" and "charset" noninterchangeably.) The charset situation is much like the canonical CRLF situation: the fact that the canonical representation is identical to some but not all of the available local representations guarantees misunderstandings. To be sure, automated selection of and translation to a registered MIME charset is a non-trivial task, and mailers which are trying to adopt MIME right away cannot be faulted for deferring development of such functionality for a while. However, just letting users specify non-default, non-7-bit-US-ASCII, (non-MIME) charsets is an open invitation to misunderstanding and noninteroperability. For now, composition agents which wish to allow users to use extended character sets (such as Latin-1), but which elect to relegate character set and/or charset selection to the user, should either present the user with a menu of registered MIME charsets from which to select (presumably it will be up to the user to ensure that the editor or composition tool is actually using a character set corresponding to the selected charset), or (in the case of what it sounds like PINE is doing) at least filter the user's open-ended charset selection against the list of registered values (and perhaps also the X- pattern). I've copied this message to the IETF character sets mailing list (ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, subscription requests to ietf-charsets-request@innosoft.com); any followup traffic should be sent there, and *not* to the ietf-822 list. Steve Summit scs@adam.mit.edu P.S. to pine-info@cac.washington.edu: despite my e-mail address, I'm actually in Seattle, near UW. I'd be glad to stop by one day and talk with you guys in person about this stuff. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 14 20:58:37 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27132; Fri, 14 May 93 20:58:37 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13384; Fri, 14 May 93 20:52:51 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13378; Fri, 14 May 93 20:52:50 -0700 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA16916; Fri, 14 May 93 20:51:19 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 20:47:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: CHARSET considerations To: ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, scs@adam.mit.edu Cc: TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ietf-822@dimacs.rutgers.edu, ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu, scs@adam.mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9305142129.AA22544@adam.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Steve - Thanks for your comments. You needn't convince me; I've been involved with the MIME charset issue for a long time (you'll note that I am one of the authors of the ISO-2022-JP spec). In defense of the other Pine team members, the sin is one of omission rather than of comission; they wanted to do something about character sets and didn't want to wire in a table of legal values (since it might change). I've suggested that as a first pass the charset should only be settable in the system config file, and that the charset always be coerced to US-ASCII unless the text contains 8-bit characters and/or has ``funny'' control characters such as ESC or SI/SO. More work would definitely be needed in this area, but you'll appreciate that there are other, higher priorities just now... -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 17 09:36:37 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07917; Mon, 17 May 93 09:36:37 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23153; Mon, 17 May 93 09:16:45 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23145; Mon, 17 May 93 09:16:43 -0700 Received: by norman.nwnet.net (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25880; Mon, 17 May 93 09:16:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 09:06:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: CHARSET considerations To: Mark Crispin Cc: ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ietf-822@dimacs.rutgers.edu, ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu, scs@adam.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I haven't followed this discussion, but Pine does do a few things with character sets. For example if you set Pine to use ISO-8859-1 and send an all ASCII message it will tag it US-ASCII (instead of ISO-8859-1). Also, it's smart enough to display the lower 128 for all incoming messages in the ISO-8859-X characters sets and greek the ones it can't if the character set of the receiving Pine is US-ASCII or ISO-8859-X. Thought that was what required for minimal MIME compliance. Hope I haven't upgraded the sin from omission to comision.... LL On Fri, 14 May 1993, Mark Crispin wrote: > Steve - > > Thanks for your comments. You needn't convince me; I've been involved > with the MIME charset issue for a long time (you'll note that I am one of the > authors of the ISO-2022-JP spec). In defense of the other Pine team members, > the sin is one of omission rather than of comission; they wanted to do > something about character sets and didn't want to wire in a table of legal > values (since it might change). > > I've suggested that as a first pass the charset should only be settable > in the system config file, and that the charset always be coerced to US-ASCII > unless the text contains 8-bit characters and/or has ``funny'' control > characters such as ESC or SI/SO. More work would definitely be needed in this > area, but you'll appreciate that there are other, higher priorities just > now... > > -- Mark -- > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 17 11:13:38 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA10963; Mon, 17 May 93 11:13:38 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25521; Mon, 17 May 93 10:58:45 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mom.spie.org by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25515; Mon, 17 May 93 10:58:44 -0700 Received: from mom.spie.org by mom.spie.org (PMDF #3397 ) id <01GYA2LVTAU800048L@mom.spie.org>; Mon, 17 May 1993 10:59:05 PDT Date: 17 May 1993 10:59:05 -0700 (PDT) From: AL@mom.spie.org Subject: VMS To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: <01GYA2LVTAUA00048L@mom.spie.org> Organization: SPIE - The International Society for Optical Engineering X-Vms-To: IN%"pine-info@cac.washington.edu" X-Vms-Cc: AL Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've got a number of users, who have access to the UNIX box at the local university, who just love PINE; I've been impressed with what I've seen. Unfortunately we are a VAX/VMS shop; sooooo, my question is to what extent anyone out there is working on a VMS port. ________________________________________________________________ | | | Al Gill - Mgr./Information & Telecommunication Services | | SPIE (e-mail: al@mom.spie.org | | P.O. Box 10 fax: 206.647.1445 | | Bellingham, WA 98227-0010 phone: 206.676.3290) | | | |________Remember: No matter where you go; there you are.________| From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 17 15:22:57 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20825; Mon, 17 May 93 15:22:57 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA29362; Mon, 17 May 93 15:10:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mailhost1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA29356; Mon, 17 May 93 15:10:44 -0700 Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mailhost1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA29327; Mon, 17 May 93 15:10:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 15:05:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: CHARSET considerations To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ietf-822@dimacs.rutgers.edu, ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu, scs@adam.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Laurence - Perhaps all that is needed is a list in the system .pinerc file of all the valid charsets, and not let the user set her charset to one that is not in the list. So, perhaps Pine could have US-ASCII, ISO-2022-JP, and the various ISO-8859-x sets wired in as an initial list, and the system file specify additional valid sets? The concern is to avoid letting users do things like set it to things such as ``Latin-1'' or ``ASCII'' or similar bogons... What do you think? -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 17 19:44:11 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26829; Mon, 17 May 93 19:44:11 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02524; Mon, 17 May 93 19:32:43 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from utdallas.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02518; Mon, 17 May 93 19:32:41 -0700 Received: from frog.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (ZMailer 2.1.3 #231) with BLIMP id <73608>; Mon, 17 May 1993 21:32:36 -0500 Subject: Main Menu Suggestion From: Billy Barron To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 21:32:14 -0500 Cc: shane@utdallas.edu (Shane Davis), lippke@utdallas.edu (David Lippke), briggs@utdallas.edu, bond@utdallas.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Message-Id: <93May17.213236cdt.73608@utdallas.edu> When we were demoing UNIX PINE (as well as other items) for my boss today, a very good suggestion came out. The main menu should have a highlight bar that can be moved around like the mail index screen does. It would make the program more consisent. -- Billy Barron, Information Services Manager, Univ of Texas at Dallas billy@utdallas.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 00:48:09 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00687; Tue, 18 May 93 00:48:09 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03810; Tue, 18 May 93 00:31:16 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03804; Tue, 18 May 93 00:31:14 -0700 Received: from tower.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <09782-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Tue, 18 May 1993 08:20:13 +0100 Received: from pippin.york.ac.uk by tower.york.ac.uk via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:pine-info@cac.washington.edu id AA13722; Tue, 18 May 93 08:31:45 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 May 93 08:31:46 +0000 From: Mike Brudenell To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Re: VMS port of Pine Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Your message <01GYA2LVTAUA00048L@mom.spie.org> of 17 May 1993 10:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII I started looking at doing porting the Pine client program (*not* the imapd server, which is non-trivial) to work with DEC's UCX software (now "TCP/IP Services for VMS" (sic)). I managed to get the c-client stuff to compile up with little bother and successfully. However I got floored by the screen management stuff and getting sinlge keystrokes back (VAXC has a minimalist idea of what to provide for compatibility in the way of Curses and/or Terminfo routintes) Someone at Washington is rumoured to have some SMG code tucked away in an archive somewhere that may be useful (if you know how to program with SMG!) If anyone does get a Pine client working ON VAX/VMS (ideally over UCX from our point of view) PLEASE let me know... We would really like this, as we could then access our IMAP-served mailboxes on UNIX from our VAX/VMS systems. Mike Brudenell Systems Group University of York Computing Service From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 01:17:05 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01206; Tue, 18 May 93 01:17:05 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04004; Tue, 18 May 93 01:06:30 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03998; Tue, 18 May 93 01:06:27 -0700 Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <28716-0@susssys1.reading.ac.uk>; Tue, 18 May 1993 09:06:09 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 09:05:23 +0100 (BST) From: Mike Roch Reply-To: Mike Roch Subject: PCNFS Telnet and Ctrl-C To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Many PC users here have PCNFS. Its telnet sends an "interrupt process" on Ctrl-C in much the same way as the Mac NCSA telnet. Unlike NCSA telnet however, it does not seem possible to redefine this key/signal combination. This leads to obvious problems when trying to cancel anything in Pine. Can anyone suggest a work-around or do I need to hack Pine? Mike ============================================================================== Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, Tel: 0734 318430 The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 05:03:27 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04847; Tue, 18 May 93 05:03:27 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA05296; Tue, 18 May 93 04:44:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from discus.technion.ac.il by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA05292; Tue, 18 May 93 04:44:12 -0700 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 13:28:13 +0300 (EET DST) From: Oved Ben-Aroya Subject: opening new folders in pine To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I received a gripe from one of our computer consualts: > I think I should report that this morning, when I worked in pine, I tried > to create several new folders. The problem is that pine tried to create them > in the HOME directory instead in the mail sub-directory. Perhaps you > could take a look at it. Indeed it's annoying. Pine is inconsistent: when elm-style-save=yes is set, the automatic (by sender) folders are created in the proper mail directory. However, when a new, non-default folder name is specified, it is created in the home directory. Mail and mush have a short way to specify the folder in the mail directory (prepending a "+" to the name), while elm uses "=" for the same purpose. And I have a request from my boss: a way to tell pine to save a certain group of users into one folder (by default). The group is associated with an alias, which would be a good default name. Maybe another field in the .addressbook (idea stollen from mail in VM)? -- \Oved From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 06:20:01 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA05804; Tue, 18 May 93 06:20:01 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00372; Tue, 18 May 93 06:06:11 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from ericir.syr.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00366; Tue, 18 May 93 06:05:57 -0700 Received: by ericir.syr.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M) id AA03199; Tue, 18 May 93 08:58:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 08:54:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Virtual Dave Lankes Reply-To: Virtual Dave Lankes Subject: Returns in PINE To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I think I saw this a while ago, but don't remember the solution. Our computing services have just upgraded the dial-up lines to 8bit. This of course is a good thing...except it has made a rather odd error in PINE and PICO. When dialing in on Macs the return key seems to get translated as a control-J or Justify not as a return. In the command line the return key works great. This problem only exists in PINE. Is there a way to remap the return character? stty? I know I have vt100 terminal emulation. ......................................... : R.David Lankes (a.k.a."Virtual Dave") : : Technical Consultant AskERIC Project : : Coordinator Oliver/AEGIS Project : : Syracuse University : : School of Information Studies : : rdlankes@ericir.syr.edu : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 09:04:30 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09366; Tue, 18 May 93 09:04:30 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07901; Tue, 18 May 93 08:36:25 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from herald.usask.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA07891; Tue, 18 May 93 08:36:15 -0700 Received: by herald.usask.ca (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA11808; Tue, 18 May 1993 09:35:15 -0600 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 09:33:29 -0600 (CST) From: Earl Fogel Reply-To: Earl Fogel Subject: Re: VMS port of Pine To: Mike Brudenell Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue, 18 May 1993, Mike Brudenell wrote: > I managed to get the c-client stuff to compile up with little bother and > successfully. However I got floored by the screen management stuff and getting > sinlge keystrokes back (VAXC has a minimalist idea of what to provide for > compatibility in the way of Curses and/or Terminfo routintes) I too would like to see a Pine client for VMS, and I can volunteer some expertise in the screen management and keystroke areas (gained through work on the VMS port of the gopher client software). If you'ld like to collaborate on this, I can take what you've done so far, and see how much further I can get. -- Earl Fogel Computing Services fogel@usask.ca University of Saskatchewan From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 09:31:15 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA10237; Tue, 18 May 93 09:31:15 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08647; Tue, 18 May 93 09:14:37 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08641; Tue, 18 May 93 09:14:36 -0700 Received: by norman.nwnet.net (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01719; Tue, 18 May 93 09:14:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 09:12:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: CHARSET considerations To: Mark Crispin Cc: ietf-charsets@innosoft.com, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu, scs@adam.mit.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, I think that's exactly right. We can probably adjust the comment in the .pinerc for now. In the long term the .pinerc needs a lot of good error checking. It just hasn't been done because limited resources. LL On Mon, 17 May 1993, Mark Crispin wrote: > Hi Laurence - > > Perhaps all that is needed is a list in the system .pinerc file of all > the valid charsets, and not let the user set her charset to one that is not in > the list. So, perhaps Pine could have US-ASCII, ISO-2022-JP, and the various > ISO-8859-x sets wired in as an initial list, and the system file specify > additional valid sets? > > The concern is to avoid letting users do things like set it to things > such as ``Latin-1'' or ``ASCII'' or similar bogons... > > What do you think? > > -- Mark -- > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 10:06:33 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11483; Tue, 18 May 93 10:06:33 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09355; Tue, 18 May 93 09:48:49 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from c1south.convex.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09349; Tue, 18 May 93 09:48:47 -0700 Received: by c1south.convex.com (5.64/1.35) id AA03750; Tue, 18 May 93 12:47:52 -0400 From: hawkins@c1south.convex.com (Bob Hawkins) Message-Id: <9305181647.AA03750@c1south.convex.com> Subject: bsd port of pine To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Tue, 18 May 93 12:47:51 EDT Cc: wjones@c1south.convex.com (Wayne Jones) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] The bsd port of pine has an (apparently) undefined entity, LPASS8, that is used in ttyin.c for handling 8-bit data. Any ideas for what the (correct) value of LPASS8 should be in this context? -- Bob Hawkins hawkins@convex.com From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 10:27:34 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12057; Tue, 18 May 93 10:27:34 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01437; Tue, 18 May 93 10:09:25 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from bradley.bradley.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01431; Tue, 18 May 93 10:09:22 -0700 Received: from cs1.bradley.edu by bradley.bradley.edu with SMTP id AA15484 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Tue, 18 May 93 12:09:20 -0500 Received: by cs1.bradley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21904; Tue, 18 May 93 12:09:19 CDT Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 12:06:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Matt Simmons Subject: Re: Returns in PINE To: Virtual Dave Lankes Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 18 May 1993, Virtual Dave Lankes wrote: > I think I saw this a while ago, but don't remember the solution. Our > computing services have just upgraded the dial-up lines to 8bit. This of > course is a good thing...except it has made a rather odd error in PINE and > PICO. When dialing in on Macs the return key seems to get translated as a > control-J or Justify not as a return. In the command line the return key > works great. This problem only exists in PINE. Is there a way to remap the > return character? stty? I know I have vt100 terminal emulation. We have the same problem in one of our dorms... The only way to fix it for us is to tell it to go to a machine called bucc1 from the DIAL: prompt, and then from there to telnet to camelot... otherwise, whenever you hit return, a Ctrl-J is generated... They're using really old (slow) AT&T PC's running Kermit. zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu Illinois has two seasons: Winter and Construction ___________ _______________________________________^___ ___ ___ ||| ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ | __ ,----\ High Gamma | | | |||| | | | | | | | | | | | | |_____\ Lambda |___| |___|||| |___| |___| |___| | O | O | | | | \ Chi Alpha ||| |___|___| | |__| ) Colony #099 ___________|||______________________________|______________/ Bradley Univ ||| WDW Monorail Driver Wannabe /-------- Peoria IL -----------'''---------------------------------------' Yours in ZAX From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 11:26:40 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14214; Tue, 18 May 93 11:26:40 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01737; Tue, 18 May 93 11:08:13 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from ericir.syr.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01731; Tue, 18 May 93 11:08:12 -0700 Received: by ericir.syr.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M) id AA05467; Tue, 18 May 93 14:01:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 13:58:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Virtual Dave Lankes Subject: Return problem solved. To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It turns out is a problem in the terminal server (a cisco server by the way). I was connecting via a telnet session that was doing odd translation of return characters. I needed to "rlogin" and bring the default vt100 environment with me. Thanks Syracuse Computing (John Wobus) for the answer. ......................................... : R.David Lankes (a.k.a."Virtual Dave") : : Technical Consultant AskERIC Project : : Coordinator Oliver/AEGIS Project : : Syracuse University : : School of Information Studies : : rdlankes@ericir.syr.edu : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 12:21:34 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16897; Tue, 18 May 93 12:21:34 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02006; Tue, 18 May 93 12:06:59 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from convex.csc.fi by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA02000; Tue, 18 May 93 12:06:57 -0700 Received: from tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi (tellus.csc.fi) by csc.fi with SMTP id AA20736 (5.65c8+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 18 May 1993 22:06:53 +0300 Received: from localhost.csc.fi by tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20343; Tue, 18 May 93 22:06:34 +0300 Message-Id: <9305181906.AA20343@tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi> To: hawkins@c1south.convex.com (Bob Hawkins) Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, wjones@c1south.convex.com (Wayne Jones) Subject: Re: bsd port of pine In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 May 1993 12:47:51 EDT." <9305181647.AA03750@c1south.convex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 22:06:34 +0300 From: Pekka Kytolaakso Your message dated: Tue, 18 May 1993 12:47:51 EDT > The bsd port of pine has an (apparently) undefined entity, LPASS8, > that is used in ttyin.c for handling 8-bit data. > = > Any ideas for what the (correct) value of LPASS8 should be in this conte= xt? > -- = > Bob Hawkins I don't remember now (I'm writing from home) but I can send You diff's that make pine 3.07 work on convex. I'll propably do it tomorrow. Pekka Kyt=F6laakso --------------------------------------------------------------- netmgr@tellus.csc.fi Centre for Scientific Computing Pekka.Kytolaakso@csc.fi PL 40 SF-02101 Espoo FINLAND Phone: +358 0 4571 Telefax: + 358 0 4572302 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 14:25:38 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21137; Tue, 18 May 93 14:25:38 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14008; Tue, 18 May 93 14:10:22 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uwavm.u.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14002; Tue, 18 May 93 14:10:21 -0700 Message-Id: <9305182110.AA14002@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 4635; Tue, 18 May 93 14:09:15 PDT Received: from RICEVM1.RICE.EDU by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Mailer R2.08 R208004) with BSMTP id 3873; Tue, 18 May 93 14:09:14 PDT Received: from ricevm1.rice.edu (NJE origin TROTH@RICEVM1) by RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3302; Tue, 18 May 1993 16:09:49 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 18 May 93 15:31:15 CDT From: Rick Troth Subject: Re: CHARSET considerations To: scs@adam.mit.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ietf-charsets@innosoft.com Cc: dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 14 May 93 17:29:24 -0400 from On Fri, 14 May 93 17:29:24 -0400 Steve said: >In <9305121752.AA00650@dimacs.rutgers.edu>, Rick wrote: >> Any user of Pine 3.05 (and as far as I can tell 3.07 or 2.x) >> can shoot themself in the foot (head if you prefer) by setting >> character-set = Zeldas_private_codepage. > >This is almost certainly a bad idea, ... Although I used this to defend my action of having used an illegitimate CHARSET, I do NOT think that all "user can shoot themself in the foot" features are bad. Specifically, I feel (quite strongly) that the user should be able to specify any old charset and have display at least attempted at the other end. The long term solution is, of course, to map between "character sets" (which the use should have control over) and "charsets" (which the user should leave alone). My only request of Pine from all this noise is that Pine NOT LABEL messages of Content-Type: text/plain. (this may be counter to RFC 1341; is it?) >> Should the Pine developers remove this feature? No. > charset is an octet-based encoding used during >message transfer; it need bear no relation to the composing or >viewing character sets. Right. I maintain that CHARSET specification should be omitted when feasible. This is because there are such things as gateways which translate the SMTP octet-stream into anything. There are two goals: 1) to be able to specify new and/or extended character sets (and mark-ups and other extensions to plain text) and 2) to use "plain text" (in mail) as a transport medium. For the former, use Base64 encoding when needed. For the latter, don't label the text "ASCII" or any other codepoint mapping if there's any way on earth that it might get translated by a gateway. I don't think this is making sense and I can't find the words. Steve apparently has: charset -vs- character_set. Plain text is defined differently from system to system. On UNIX, plain text is ASCII (now ISO-8859-1) with lines delimited by NL (actually LF). On NT, plain text is 16 bits wide (so I hear). That ain't ASCII, though we could be the high-order 8 bits for much of plain text processing, and that's fine by me. (memory is cheap) On VM/CMS, plain text is EBCDIC (now CodePage 1047) and records are handled by the filesystem out-of-band of the data, so NL (and LF and CR) aren't sacred characters. Now ... "mail is plain-text, not ASCII". > In the most general case, a message will >be composed using some native character set, translated >automatically to a MIME-registered charset, and translated at the >other end into a native display character set. Right! 99 times out of 100 you don't care, but there's that 1% of the time when you've called it US-ASCII and it's NOT anymore, although it *is* still legitimate "plain text". > (You'll notice that I reinforce this distinction in my >own head and in this message by using the terms "character set" >and "charset" noninterchangeably.) Thanks. That helps. >The charset situation is much like the canonical CRLF situation: >the fact that the canonical representation is identical to some >but not all of the available local representations guarantees >misunderstandings. Right! And this thinking, carried into MIME (thus this should be kicked BACK TO the IETF-822 list, but I refrain), shows up in the use of CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 rather than CHARACTER_SET=Latin-1. If you specify "Latin-1", then you can (must; I'm arguing for a definition here, not an explanation) assume that SMTP will carry it as ISO-8859-1, BUT THE RECEIVING (or sending) HOST MIGHT NOT. (and yes, sad but true, any SMTPs will strip the high bit) >To be sure, automated selection of and translation to a registered >MIME charset is a non-trivial task, ... Yes. Which is why I want routers, gateways, and all MTAs (mail transfer agents) to stay out of it. That's why I ask that (today, 1993) we NOT LABEL true plain text as US-ASCII/ISO-8859-1. Just leave it alone and let it default at the receiving end. > and mailers which are trying >to adopt MIME right away cannot be faulted for deferring >development of such functionality for a while. And let me reiterate that I'm not mad at the Pine developers (nor the MIME developers; not mad at anyone, just trying to push a point that I think is important and has been missed). I'm very pleased with Pine. It can almost replace RiceMAIL. Steve, it's obvious from your distinction between character set (set of characters) and charset (encoding of characters) that you understand this issue. Thanks for making up and using those labels! > Steve Summit > scs@adam.mit.edu -- Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 18 20:33:58 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA29582; Tue, 18 May 93 20:33:58 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04384; Tue, 18 May 93 20:20:06 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from necom830.cc.titech.ac.jp by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04378; Tue, 18 May 93 20:20:02 -0700 Received: by necom830.cc.titech.ac.jp (5.65+/necom-mx-rg); Wed, 19 May 93 12:17:11 +0900 From: Masataka Ohta Return-Path: Message-Id: <9305190317.AA01493@necom830.cc.titech.ac.jp> Subject: RE: CHARSET considerations To: TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu (Rick Troth) Date: Wed, 19 May 93 12:17:09 JST Cc: scs@adam.mit.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ietf-charsets%INNOSOFT.BITNET@uwavm.u.washington.edu, dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu Reply-To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <01GYBXHRZVEA8Y5JAE@INNOSOFT.COM>; from "Rick Troth" at May 18, 93 3:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] I don't know what pine is. But, could you please discuss on pine specific features in pine ML only? Masataka Ohta From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 04:09:14 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08440; Wed, 19 May 93 04:09:14 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20530; Wed, 19 May 93 03:54:01 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mail.liv.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20524; Wed, 19 May 93 03:53:59 -0700 Received: from liverpool.ac.uk by mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <12825-0@mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk>; Wed, 19 May 1993 11:50:30 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 11:36:21 +0100 (BST) From: Chris Wooff Subject: Re: opening new folders in pine To: Oved Ben-Aroya Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 18 May 1993, Oved Ben-Aroya wrote: > Indeed it's annoying. Pine is inconsistent: when elm-style-save=yes > is set, the automatic (by sender) folders are created in the proper > mail directory. However, when a new, non-default folder name is > specified, it is created in the home directory. Mail and mush have a > short way to specify the folder in the mail directory (prepending a "+" > to the name), while elm uses "=" for the same purpose. I see none of this inconsistency. Are you sure that the user has mail-directory set correctly in .pinerc? > And I have a request from my boss: a way to tell pine to save a certain > group of users into one folder (by default). The group is associated > with an alias, which would be a good default name. Maybe another field > in the .addressbook (idea stollen from mail in VM)? We've recently moved from using a Rice-Mail lookalike on VM to elm on Unix. The inability to associate particular users with folders is a feature which many of our users miss. This association should give user-dependent default folders when the user sends mail (i.e. in the Fcc: field) and when the user "Save"s mail using the S command. I'd therefore strongly support Oved's request for this enhancement. Chris From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 04:27:50 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08585; Wed, 19 May 93 04:27:50 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21105; Wed, 19 May 93 04:11:07 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from aun.uninett.no by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21099; Wed, 19 May 93 04:11:04 -0700 X400-Received: by mta aun.uninett.no in /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Wed, 19 May 1993 13:07:57 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Wed, 19 May 1993 13:07:49 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/; Relayed; Wed, 19 May 1993 13:07:45 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 13:07:45 +0200 X400-Originator: harald.t.alvestrand@delab.sintef.no X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/;930519130745] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: 10241 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand Message-Id: <"10241*/I=t/G=harald/S=alvestrand/OU=delab/O=sintef/PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/"@MHS> To: Rick Troth Cc: scs , pine-info , ietf-charsets , dan In-Reply-To: <01GYBXHRZVEA8Y5JAE@INNOSOFT.COM> Subject: RE: CHARSET considerations Rick Troth writes: > Plain text is defined differently from system to system. >On UNIX, plain text is ASCII (now ISO-8859-1) with lines delimited by >NL (actually LF). On NT, plain text is 16 bits wide (so I hear). >That ain't ASCII, though we could be the high-order 8 bits for much >of plain text processing, and that's fine by me. (memory is cheap) >On VM/CMS, plain text is EBCDIC (now CodePage 1047) and records are >handled by the filesystem out-of-band of the data, so NL (and LF and CR) >aren't sacred characters. Now ... "mail is plain-text, not ASCII". Please, gentlemen.....read the RFC. As long as you send mail over the Internet, claiming MIME compatibility, the bits on the wire have to conform to the MIME convention, *NOT* to the local convention, whatever that is. The omission of a character set label from text/plain MEANS THAT THE CHARACTER SET IS US ASCII. A message that contains characters with the high bit set CANNOT BE US-ASCII, and therefore, a text/plain message without a charset= label in it that has such characters IS NOT LEGAL MIME. So, when SMTP strips the 8th bit, it gets what it deserves. This was ******NOT******* an oversight. This was deliberate design, designed to promote interoperability. The proliferation of mail in strange character sets without labels is *exactly* one of the things that the MIME effort was meant to *remove*. End of flame..............if you want a couple of tons more, read the archives of the SMTP and RFC-822 groups. The last flareup is hidden under "unknown-7bit" and "unknown-8bit" discussions. Harald Tveit Alvestrand From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 07:31:21 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11394; Wed, 19 May 93 07:31:21 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22401; Wed, 19 May 93 07:17:01 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22395; Wed, 19 May 93 07:16:59 -0700 Received: by ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05728; Wed, 19 May 93 10:16:12 EDT Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 10:11:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Schlitt Subject: RE: CHARSET considerations To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand Cc: scs , pine-info , ietf-charsets In-Reply-To: <"10241*/I=t/G=harald/S=alvestrand/OU=delab/O=sintef/PRMD=uninett/ADMD= /C=no/"@MHS> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thank you Harald. MIME is MIME is MIME. And if it violates the RFC it isn't MIME and shouldn't pretend to be. That was the point of my original cryptic comment. Now PLEASE edit my address out of the headers of this. And probably all of those other mailinglists and limit to pine-info. PLEASE. Thankyou. Dan Schlitt School of Engineering Computer Systems dan@ee-mail.engr.ccny.cuny.edu City College of New York (212)650-6760 New York, NY 10031 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 08:14:05 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12332; Wed, 19 May 93 08:14:05 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22717; Wed, 19 May 93 07:48:52 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from dukemc.mc.duke.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22711; Wed, 19 May 93 07:48:50 -0700 Received: from mc.duke.edu by mc.duke.edu (PMDF V4.2-10 #3229) id <01GYCUYIUL2O000CBL@mc.duke.edu>; Wed, 19 May 1993 10:52:23 EST Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 10:51:22 -0500 (EST) From: James Dryfoos- Postmaster Subject: Core dump on Ultrix build? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: <01GYCUZ9XT3M000CBL@mc.duke.edu> Organization: Duke University Medical Center, Durham NC, USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ANy ideas whay I get the following on an Ultrix build of 3.07: Making Pine. ln -s os-unx.h os.h ./cmplhlp2.sh < pine.hlp > helptext.h cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c addrbook.c cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c addrutil.c cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c adrbklib.c cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c args.c cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c folder.c cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c help.c ./cmplhelp.sh < pine.hlp > helptext.c cc -DULT -g -DDEBUG -c helptext.c Fatal error in: /usr/lib/cmplrs/cc/ugen Segmentation fault - core dumped *** Error code 11 Stop. Links to executables are in bin directory: ldopen: cannot open bin/pine size: cannot open bin/pine text data bss dec hex 241664 32768 24272 298704 48ed0 bin/mtest 233472 32768 32464 298704 48ed0 bin/imapd 208896 36864 30880 276640 438a0 bin/pico Done I used the build ult procedure. I left stuff out above. -- Jim From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 11:06:53 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18856; Wed, 19 May 93 11:06:53 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26171; Wed, 19 May 93 10:45:55 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from dukemc.mc.duke.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26161; Wed, 19 May 93 10:45:53 -0700 Received: from mc.duke.edu by mc.duke.edu (PMDF V4.2-10 #3229) id <01GYD0MKXPCG000CBL@mc.duke.edu>; Wed, 19 May 1993 13:49:15 EST Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 13:36:49 -0500 (EST) From: James Dryfoos- Postmaster Subject: Consistent core dump from Pine 3.07 when dealing with MIME from PMDF To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, info-pmdf:; Message-Id: <01GYD172AIRO000CBL@mc.duke.edu> Organization: Duke University Medical Center, Durham NC, USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have a problem where a MIME mesage from PMDF 4.2 sent to a PINE 3.07 mailer causes PINE to core dump if I try to forward or reply to the message. This also happens to Pine 3.05. I cannot forward you the message (problem above) so will cut and paste what is on my screen. Here is what I see when I read the message via PINE (I have removed message text): ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ PINE 3.07 VIEW MAIL Folder:inbox Message 32 of 34 42% Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 09:25:35 -0500 (EST) From: JR@mc.duke.edu To: DRYFO001@deneb.mc.duke.edu Subject: What is all of this about? I did not send out a messsage. Parts/attachments: 1 Shown 3.3 Kb Message 1.1 Shown 82 lines Text ---------------------------------------- ----- Part 1 "Included Message" ----- (Message text removed.) ----------------------------------------------------------------- --Boundary (ID qNw9tcUxHmAXTlJCfTBhow) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII (message body removed) --Boundary (ID qNw9tcUxHmAXTlJCfTBhow) Content-type: MESSAGE/SAMPLE (Message body removed) --Boundary (ID qNw9tcUxHmAXTlJCfTBhow)-- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Here is when it dies. I have attempted to forward the message and I say non-mime when prompted by PINE as to whether or not to forward it as a MIME message (maybe this is the problem?). I just tried saying forward as a MIME message and it works. To : dmpm@mc.duke.edu Cc : Attchmnt: 1. [Message] (3.3Kb) "" Subject : What is all of this about? I did not send out a messsage. (fwd) ----- Message Text ----- Test new pine ======================================================================= James D. Dryfoos | dryfo001@mc.duke.edu Duke University Medical Center | dryfo001@dukemc.bitnet 2200 West Main Street | Suite 450 Room 36A | (919) 286-6391 - office Durham, NC 27710 Earth | (919) 286-6369 - fax ======================================================================= ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 09:25:35 -0500 (EST) From: JR@mc.duke.edu To: DRYFO001@deneb.mc.duke.edu Subject: What is all of this about? I did not send out a messsage. [Sending mail.....]Segmentation fault (core dumped) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So is the problem me saying do not forward as a MIME message? Or should Pine handle it anyway? I do not think that PMDF is causing this, it just happens to be the mailer the message was sent from. -- Jim From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 11:09:39 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19022; Wed, 19 May 93 11:09:39 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26223; Wed, 19 May 93 10:47:52 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from dukemc.mc.duke.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26217; Wed, 19 May 93 10:47:51 -0700 Received: from mc.duke.edu by mc.duke.edu (PMDF V4.2-10 #3229) id <01GYD0MKXPCG000CBL@mc.duke.edu>; Wed, 19 May 1993 13:51:12 EST Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 13:50:18 -0500 (EST) From: James Dryfoos- Postmaster Subject: More on consistent core dump from Pine 3.07 when dealing with mime from PMDF To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, info-pmdf:; Message-Id: <01GYD19HN2V0000CBL@mc.duke.edu> Organization: Duke University Medical Center, Durham NC, USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Would like to add that I definately cannot do a reply without a core DUMP: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ To : JR@mc.duke.edu Cc : Attchmnt: 1. [Message] (3.3Kb) "" Subject : Re: What is all of this about? I did not send out a messsage. ----- Message Text ----- Hum, I think this is because I have you listed as the one to receive any problems realted to the list. ======================================================================= James D. Dryfoos | dryfo001@mc.duke.edu Duke University Medical Center | dryfo001@dukemc.bitnet 2200 West Main Street | Suite 450 Room 36A | (919) 286-6391 - office Durham, NC 27710 Earth | (919) 286-6369 - fax ======================================================================= On Wed, 19 May 1993 JR@mc.duke.edu wrote: [Sending mail.....]Segmentation fault deneb .mc.duke.edu> From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 11:53:48 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20774; Wed, 19 May 93 11:53:48 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08157; Wed, 19 May 93 11:39:58 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08151; Wed, 19 May 93 11:39:57 -0700 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA25115; Wed, 19 May 93 11:39:52 -0700 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA04926; Wed, 19 May 93 11:39:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 11:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Consistent core dump from Pine 3.07 when dealing with MIME from PMDF To: James Dryfoos- Postmaster Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <01GYD172AIRO000CBL@mc.duke.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is a bug in Pine, but the information you've provided is inadequate to fix the problem. I will need the actual message to reproduce the problem. We were aware of a bug in 3.05 that caused this behavior, but we thought we fixed it in 3.07. Please make the message available to me and I will fix the problem. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 12:11:36 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21491; Wed, 19 May 93 12:11:36 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27698; Wed, 19 May 93 12:02:41 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27692; Wed, 19 May 93 12:02:39 -0700 Received: from SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM by SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM (PMDF V4.3-0 #1992) id <01GYCVN9W1C09D5JSC@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>; Wed, 19 May 1993 12:02:16 PDT Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 12:01:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: Consistent core dump from Pine 3.07 when dealing with MIME from PMDF In-Reply-To: Your message dated "Wed, 19 May 1993 13:36:49 -0500 (EST)" <01GYD172AIRO000CBL@mc.duke.edu> To: James Dryfoos- Postmaster Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ipmdf@innosoft.com Message-Id: <01GYCXGFBUO49D5JSC@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > I have a problem where a MIME mesage from PMDF 4.2 sent to a PINE 3.07 mailer > causes PINE to core dump if I try to forward or reply to the message. This > also happens to Pine 3.05. I cannot forward you the message (problem above) > so will cut and paste what is on my screen. > Here is what I see when I read the message via PINE (I have removed message > text): Please do not post Pine problems to the info-pmdf list. Pine has nothing to do with PMDF, and regardless of what message it gets from whatever source, should never have occasion to core dump. Ned From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 16:15:46 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28104; Wed, 19 May 93 16:15:46 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01234; Wed, 19 May 93 16:06:21 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from brazos.is.rice.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01224; Wed, 19 May 93 16:06:16 -0700 Received: by brazos.is.rice.edu (AA15934); Wed, 19 May 93 18:06:14 CDT Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 18:02:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Rick Troth Subject: another "robustness" request To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: troth@rice.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I've been moving notebooks from one system to another and find that sometimes the blank line after the header isn't *really* empty, there's a single character. Developers, if you would, please cause Pine to treat a line with only white-space (any mixture of SPACEs and TABs, but nothing else) to be a valid header delimiter line. Thanks! -- Rick Troth , Rice University, Information Systems From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 17:49:56 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00800; Wed, 19 May 93 17:49:56 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09995; Wed, 19 May 93 17:40:22 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09989; Wed, 19 May 93 17:40:21 -0700 Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA25423; Wed, 19 May 93 17:40:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 17:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: another "robustness" request To: Rick Troth Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 19 May 1993 18:02:46 -0500 (CDT), Rick Troth wrote: > Developers, if you would, please cause Pine to treat a line > with only white-space (any mixture of SPACEs and TABs, > but nothing else) to be a valid header delimiter line. This is not a good idea. A header line with only white-space has a specific meaning in RFC-822. It is a continuation line with empty text. I have seen messages which deliberately do this (e.g. in the Comments: header). Such messages conform to RFC-822. A non-null header delimiter line does not. In effect, you are asking that a bug be introduced in Pine to work around a bug in some other software. The proper thing to do is to fix that other software. If it weren't for the fact that this had negative consequences, it might be considered as a robustness feature. But, to be considered as a robustness feature, a proposed function can not break something that is already valid. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 20:17:51 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03111; Wed, 19 May 93 20:17:51 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03584; Wed, 19 May 93 20:11:02 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shamash.cdc.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03562; Wed, 19 May 93 20:10:59 -0700 Received: by shamash.cdc.com (4.1/SMI-4.0/CDC1.1) id AA12878; Wed, 19 May 93 22:10:21 CDT Received: by cosmo.twntpe.cdc.com (5.61/1.34) id AA08514; Thu, 20 May 93 10:42:45 +0800 Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 10:09:47 +0800 (TST) From: Ed Greshko Subject: Re: Consistent core dump from Pine 3.07 when dealing with MIME from PMDF To: Ned Freed Cc: James Dryfoos- Postmaster , pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ipmdf@innosoft.com In-Reply-To: <01GYCXGFBUO49D5JSC@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 19 May 1993, Ned Freed wrote: > > I have a problem where a MIME mesage from PMDF 4.2 sent to a PINE 3.07 mailer > > causes PINE to core dump if I try to forward or reply to the message. This > > also happens to Pine 3.05. I cannot forward you the message (problem above) > > so will cut and paste what is on my screen. > > > Here is what I see when I read the message via PINE (I have removed message > > text): > > Please do not post Pine problems to the info-pmdf list. Pine has nothing to do > with PMDF, and regardless of what message it gets from whatever source, should > never have occasion to core dump. I've seen people get touchy about the code they write...but this one takes the cake. James mentions at the end of his first message that: "I do not think that PMDF is causing this, it just happens to be the mailer the message was sent from." The guy just wanted to cover all bases and fully describe the problem. Also, even if it isn't a PMDF problem (heaven forbid!) maybe someone in that group would/could have offered assistance. Up until James talked about PMDF I didn't know it existed. When I first saw his message I thought about taking a look to see what kind of package it is. But, considering the 'my product can't be at fault' attitude I seem to be detecting....I'm not so sure it is worth it. I'd rather stick with pine and its authors who are humble and gracious. Edward M. Greshko Control Data Taiwan Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287 6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3 FAX : +886-2-712-9197 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 19 22:15:42 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04480; Wed, 19 May 93 22:15:42 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04018; Wed, 19 May 93 22:07:06 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04012; Wed, 19 May 93 22:07:04 -0700 Received: from SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM by SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM (PMDF V4.3-0 #1992) id <01GYDDD3QT8G9D5JSC@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>; Wed, 19 May 1993 22:06:34 PDT Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 21:34:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: Consistent core dump from Pine 3.07 when dealing with MIME from PMDF In-Reply-To: Your message dated "Thu, 20 May 1993 10:09:47 +0800 (TST)" To: Ed Greshko Cc: Ned Freed , James Dryfoos- Postmaster , pine-info@cac.washington.edu, ipmdf@innosoft.com Message-Id: <01GYDIKMT9LO9D5JSC@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > I've seen people get touchy about the code they write...but this one > takes the cake. Your assumption here is incorrect -- I neither said nor implied anything whatsoever about either my code or anyone else's. Please reread my original posting if this isn't clear. The situation is very simple. The info-pmdf list is a very active one, with lots of messages about PMDF. We are constantly under fire for cluttering up people's mailboxes with issues that are clearly unrelated to PMDF. Readers of info-pmdf constantly send me mail about the lack of focus of the list, and they constantly urge me to try to keep the discussion focused on products that the list is intended to discuss. Posting of material that is quite clearly not a PMDF problem on the info-pmdf list is inappropriate. Period. I was simply pointing out this basic fact, and thus far I've received two private messages commending me for taking this stance for a change. I usually don't and I usually get yelled at a lot for it. > James mentions at the end of his first message that: > > "I do not think that PMDF is causing this, it just happens to be the mailer > > the message was sent from." > The guy just wanted to cover all bases and fully describe the problem. > Also, even if it isn't a PMDF problem (heaven forbid!) maybe someone in that > group would/could have offered assistance. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. This argument leads directly to every message no matter what the subject being posted to every mailing list in existence, since there there's a faint chance that someone on some list might just have some additional insight into the problem. Or perhaps we should have limited things to the software involved. Let's see, we could have crossposted to info-vax, info-multinet, and probably to an assortment of UNIX-related and hardware-related lists. Perhaps some newsgroups like comp.lang.c and comp.lang.pascal could be added because of the languages the various products are written in. These things could also comprise part of the problem, and the readers of those lists might be able to offer some insight, right? The real problem is that such crossposting can actually work -- you reach a wider audience and the likelihood of someone knowing how to fix the problem really is greater. But the cost is great and this far outweighs the benefit. As for this being a PMDF problem, how could it possibly be a PMDF problem? Pine dumped core. Even if a PMDF bug offered up an endless stream of binary trash in response to some Pine action it is still bogus for Pine to dump core. Not dumping core no matter what the provocation is a fundamental property of all robust software, and both my own use of Pine as well as everything I've heard about it leads me to believe that it is intended to be very robust and capable. > Up until James talked about PMDF I didn't know it existed. When > I first saw his message I thought about taking a look to see what kind of > package it is. But, considering the 'my product can't be at fault' attitude > I seem to be detecting.... No such attitude was expressed or implied. I did not say that PMDF is not what is causing the problem -- it probably is what is causing the problem. But PMDF's actions are irrelevant; no matter what PMDF does Pine should not dump core because of it. > I'm not so sure it is worth it. I'd rather stick > with pine and its authors who are humble and gracious. You are of course entitled to your opinion. However, you should be aware of a couple of things. First, James posts quite frequently to the info-pmdf list with genuine PMDF issues. This is what the list is for and as far as I know I have always responded quickly and informatively to the questions he has brought up. You might also want to consider what the Pine maintainers would say if we constantly discussed PMDF on the info-pine list. In conclusion, I was simply taking a position numerous info-pmdf readers and users of the product have asked me to take on such matters. Thus far, your lone voice is the one dissenting view, and I find your conclusions to be unwarranted, your arguments to be specious, and your position to be untenable. Ned From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 20 06:20:34 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12686; Thu, 20 May 93 06:20:34 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06650; Thu, 20 May 93 06:13:05 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from discus.technion.ac.il by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06646; Thu, 20 May 93 06:12:56 -0700 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 12:41:21 +0300 (EET DST) From: Oved Ben-Aroya Subject: Re: opening new folders in pine To: Chris Wooff Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 19 May 1993, Chris Wooff wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 1993, Oved Ben-Aroya wrote: > > > Indeed it's annoying. Pine is inconsistent: when elm-style-save=yes > > is set, the automatic (by sender) folders are created in the proper > > mail directory. However, when a new, non-default folder name is > > specified, it is created in the home directory. Mail and mush have a > > short way to specify the folder in the mail directory (prepending a "+" > > to the name), while elm uses "=" for the same purpose. > I see none of this inconsistency. Are you sure that the user has > mail-directory set correctly in .pinerc? > I've checked again. It's OK when elm-style-save=no, and only happen when elm-style-save=yes. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 20 13:11:43 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA24778; Thu, 20 May 93 13:11:43 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14918; Thu, 20 May 93 12:58:09 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from dkuug.dk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14912; Thu, 20 May 93 12:58:01 -0700 Received: by dkuug.dk id AA28105 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4j for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Thu, 20 May 1993 21:56:14 +0200 Message-Id: <199305201956.AA28105@dkuug.dk> From: keld@dkuug.dk (Keld J|rn Simonsen) Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 21:56:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade "RE: CHARSET considerations" (May 18, 17:30) X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mnemonic-Intro: 29 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.2 4/12/91) To: Laurence Lundblade , Mark Crispin Subject: RE: CHARSET considerations Cc: ietf-charsets@INNOSOFT.COM, scs@adam.mit.edu, TROTH@ricevm1.rice.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu, dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu, scs@adam.mit.edu Laurence Lundblade writes: > Yes, I think that's exactly right. We can probably adjust the comment in > the .pinerc for now. In the long term the .pinerc needs a lot of good > error checking. It just hasn't been done because limited resources. All of the RFC 1345 character sets are registered for MIME use. That should be able to cover most needs. Keld From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 20 14:05:41 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26548; Thu, 20 May 93 14:05:41 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15238; Thu, 20 May 93 13:51:49 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mickey.risd.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15231; Thu, 20 May 93 13:51:45 -0700 Received: by risd.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA05929; Thu, 20 May 93 16:53:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 16:53:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Randall Reynolds Subject: unsubsribe To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 21 00:47:58 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09302; Fri, 21 May 93 00:47:58 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA17594; Fri, 21 May 93 00:31:02 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA17584; Fri, 21 May 93 00:31:00 -0700 Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA01457; Fri, 21 May 93 00:30:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 00:28:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: VMS port of Pine To: Mike Brudenell Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Innosoft has ported imapd to VMS. I am curious why this is so difficult, since imapd has no network knowledge and just uses stdio. There's a few UNIXisms in imapd, nothing really major. Contact Ned Freed for more information. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 21 06:06:31 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14339; Fri, 21 May 93 06:06:31 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18915; Fri, 21 May 93 05:57:39 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18909; Fri, 21 May 93 05:57:36 -0700 Received: by bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk (Smail3.1.28.1 #42) id m0nwWfF-000035C; Fri, 21 May 93 13:57 BST Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 13:48:44 +0100 (BST) From: Philip Hazel Subject: Storage of address books To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We are in the process of setting up a machine which is to act as a mail server for a large population. Users will access their mail using IMAP or POP, and Pine is an obvious candidate for the User Agent. However, there are users who will be wanting to access their mail from a number of different places - e.g. from a University Department and from home, and possibly from out of town from time to time. This of course will all work fine, EXCEPT for the fact that Pine keeps its address book on the client where you are running Pine. Wouldn't it be nice if Pine were to keep the addressbook on the server machine? Then it would always be available. First thought says: "But that means modifying the IMAP protocol", but then I thought "No, you could keep the address book in a folder file." Is this a silly idea? When Pine contacts a server to open {xxxx}INBOX it could look for {xxxx}ADDRESSBOOK and read its contents over, strip off the fake "message" header, and there you are. I haven't developed this idea much, because those that know more than I do may be about to tell me why it can't be done. P.S. There's the .pinerc file as well... -- Philip Hazel University Computing Service, ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk England. Phone: +44 223 334714 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat May 22 01:01:34 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09773; Sat, 22 May 93 01:01:34 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23314; Sat, 22 May 93 00:48:46 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23308; Sat, 22 May 93 00:48:44 -0700 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02303; Sat, 22 May 93 00:48:39 -0700 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA00447; Sat, 22 May 93 00:48:32 -0700 Date: Sat, 22 May 1993 00:47:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Storage of address books To: Philip Hazel Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thank you for your suggestion of storing the addressbook as a folder on the server machine. That is an excellent idea; in fact, it is one of the ideas we are considering. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun May 23 13:57:31 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA01042; Sun, 23 May 93 13:57:31 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00522; Sun, 23 May 93 13:46:30 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from log.css.itd.umich.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00516; Sun, 23 May 93 13:46:28 -0700 Received: from stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu by css.itd.umich.edu (5.67/2.2) id AA00763; Sun, 23 May 93 16:46:19 -0400 Received: by stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu (5.67/dumb-1.0) id AA19868; Sun, 23 May 93 16:46:31 -0400 Date: Sun, 23 May 1993 16:44:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Alex Sirota Subject: sub ordering of index To: Pine Mailing List Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there a way to select a suborder by which he main index is sorted by. I would like to sort first by the from field but then by the date field in ascending order. Can this be implemented? ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: please reply to alex.sirota@umich.edu :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 24 06:32:19 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12381; Mon, 24 May 93 06:32:19 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16155; Mon, 24 May 93 06:21:20 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mail.liv.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16149; Mon, 24 May 93 06:21:16 -0700 Received: from liverpool.ac.uk by mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk via Local channel id <27097-0@mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk>; Mon, 24 May 1993 14:21:06 +0100 From: C.Wooff@liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff) Message-Id: <9305241421.ZM27094@mail.liv.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 14:21:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: Your message of May 23, 4:44pm References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93) To: Alex Sirota , Pine Mailing List Subject: Re: sub ordering of index At 4:44pm on May 23, 4:44pm Alex Sirota(adapple@umich.edu) wrote: > Is there a way to select a suborder by which he main index is sorted by. I > would like to sort first by the from field but then by the date field in > ascending order. Can this be implemented? > End of insertion from Alex Sirota I believe that only one sort field is permitted. However, I'd certainly support the provision of more than one sort field. When I have a lot of mail to read I like to sort my mail on Subject (primary) and Date (secondary). That way mail on the same subject is grouped together in chronological ordering. I reckon it saves me vast amounts of time because I can more quickly skip text which occurred in a previous item. Chris From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 24 10:51:33 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18330; Mon, 24 May 93 10:51:33 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19672; Mon, 24 May 93 10:38:27 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19642; Mon, 24 May 93 10:37:32 -0700 Received: from w250zrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE by mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE (5.65c/ZRZ-MX) id AA23125; Mon, 24 May 1993 19:36:04 +0200 From: Brahmbhatt Hitesh Message-Id: <9305241737.AA23172@w250zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de> Subject: Unsuscribe To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 19:42:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL5] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 379 Unsuscribe me please. -- ------------------------------------------------------- | HITESH BRAHMBHATT | | ZIMMER :117 ,HAUS -"O" | | SIEGMUNDSHOF 2-4 | | 1000 BERLIN 21 | | brahadfh@w203zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de | | Dept. of Computer-Science TU-BERLIN (D) | | hitesh@cs.tu-berlin.de | --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 24 11:26:51 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19509; Mon, 24 May 93 11:26:51 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20211; Mon, 24 May 93 11:10:31 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20205; Mon, 24 May 93 11:10:30 -0700 Received: by norman.nwnet.net (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23168; Mon, 24 May 93 11:10:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 10:48:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: sub ordering of index To: Chris Wooff Cc: Alex Sirota , Pine Mailing List In-Reply-To: <9305241421.ZM27094@mail.liv.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think this is a pretty good idea, probably even just for the regular sort by subject. It's almost net news style threading. All you have to do further is display only one line in the index for each subject. I think the best thing to do group the subjects together, and then sort the groups based on the most recent message in each group. Opinions? LL On Mon, 24 May 1993, Chris Wooff wrote: > > I believe that only one sort field is permitted. However, I'd certainly support > the provision of more than one sort field. When I have a lot of mail to read I > like to sort my mail on Subject (primary) and Date (secondary). That way mail on > the same subject is grouped together in chronological ordering. I reckon it > saves me vast amounts of time because I can more quickly skip text which > occurred in a previous item. > > Chris > > At 4:44pm on May 23, 4:44pm Alex Sirota(adapple@umich.edu) wrote: > > Is there a way to select a suborder by which he main index is sorted by. I > > would like to sort first by the from field but then by the date field in > > ascending order. Can this be implemented? > > > End of insertion from Alex Sirota From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 24 12:53:16 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21759; Mon, 24 May 93 12:53:16 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21552; Mon, 24 May 93 12:45:03 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21543; Mon, 24 May 93 12:44:59 -0700 Via: uk.ac.qmw.omega; Mon, 24 May 1993 20:44:05 +0100 Received: from osprey.elec.qmw.ac.uk by omega.qmw.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <04295-0@omega.qmw.ac.uk>; Mon, 24 May 1993 20:43:28 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 20:38:42 +0100 (BST) From: Laurie Cuthbert Subject: Addressbook format To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have an MSc student who will be starting her project in July. She wishes to write software to convert between the different "addressbook" formats used by the various mail user agents we have in the dept. The idea is that someone should be able to use different MUAs on different machines without having to manually update addressbook formats. The coming question is obvious: is the format used in the pine addressbook publicly available? If she does produce anything of use (not always the case with MSc students!!) I will quite happily make it generally available. regards Laurie Cuthbert From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 24 13:42:23 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23319; Mon, 24 May 93 13:42:23 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22196; Mon, 24 May 93 13:29:05 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22190; Mon, 24 May 93 13:29:04 -0700 Received: by norman.nwnet.net (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26952; Mon, 24 May 93 13:27:43 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 13:24:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Addressbook format To: Laurie Cuthbert Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, it's quite public and available. It's documented in the Pine Technical Notes that are distributed with Pine (There's lots of other stuff in the Technical Notes too). There's also a shell script to convert from Berkeley .mailrc aliases to the Pine address book that's distributed as part of Pine. LL On Mon, 24 May 1993, Laurie Cuthbert wrote: > > I have an MSc student who will be starting her project in July. She wishes > to write software to convert between the different "addressbook" formats > used by the various mail user agents we have in the dept. The idea is that > someone should be able to use different MUAs on different machines without > having to manually update addressbook formats. > > The coming question is obvious: is the format used in the pine addressbook > publicly available? > > If she does produce anything of use (not always the case with MSc > students!!) I will quite happily make it generally available. > > regards > > Laurie Cuthbert > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 24 15:13:16 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26054; Mon, 24 May 93 15:13:16 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06271; Mon, 24 May 93 15:01:41 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from beta.tricity.wsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06263; Mon, 24 May 93 15:01:38 -0700 Received: by beta.tricity.wsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA10992; Mon, 24 May 93 14:22:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 14:12:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "David L. Miller" Subject: Re: Addressbook format To: Laurie Cuthbert Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The addressbook format is very simple. A simple nickname is of the form nickname lastname [, firstname] address and a distribution list is of the form listname name of list "(" list-of-names ")" where list-of-names is a comma separated list of addresses and/or nicknames. Also, I have been working on the addressbook issue a bit and I would be happy to collaborate with your student on this project. ***************************************************************************** David L. Miller Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1 Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller 100 Sprout Road Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245 ***************************************************************************** On Mon, 24 May 1993, Laurie Cuthbert wrote: > I have an MSc student who will be starting her project in July. She wishes > to write software to convert between the different "addressbook" formats > used by the various mail user agents we have in the dept. The idea is that > someone should be able to use different MUAs on different machines without > having to manually update addressbook formats. > > The coming question is obvious: is the format used in the pine addressbook > publicly available? > > If she does produce anything of use (not always the case with MSc > students!!) I will quite happily make it generally available. > > regards > > Laurie Cuthbert > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 24 15:18:47 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26284; Mon, 24 May 93 15:18:47 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23834; Mon, 24 May 93 15:09:53 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from red1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23828; Mon, 24 May 93 15:09:51 -0700 Received: by red1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA10267; Mon, 24 May 93 15:09:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 15:08:50 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wall Subject: Re: Addressbook format To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: Laurie Cuthbert , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We also have a program to convert between RICE mailer notebooks and the Pine addressbook. The author is Tom Remmers. (remmers@u.washington.edu.) --David Wall Computing & Communications...Client Services 3-8491 Univ. of Washington HG-45 davidw@u.washington.edu On Mon, 24 May 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > Date: Mon, 24 May 1993 13:24:22 -0700 (PDT) > From: Laurence Lundblade > To: Laurie Cuthbert > Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu > Subject: Re: Addressbook format > > Yes, it's quite public and available. It's documented in the Pine > Technical Notes that are distributed with Pine (There's lots of other > stuff in the Technical Notes too). There's also a shell script to > convert from Berkeley .mailrc aliases to the Pine address book that's > distributed as part of Pine. > > LL > > > On Mon, 24 May 1993, Laurie Cuthbert wrote: > > > > I have an MSc student who will be starting her project in July. She wishes > > to write software to convert between the different "addressbook" formats > > used by the various mail user agents we have in the dept. The idea is that > > someone should be able to use different MUAs on different machines without > > having to manually update addressbook formats. > > > > The coming question is obvious: is the format used in the pine addressbook > > publicly available? > > > > If she does produce anything of use (not always the case with MSc > > students!!) I will quite happily make it generally available. > > > > regards > > > > Laurie Cuthbert > > > > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 25 00:41:49 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04695; Tue, 25 May 93 00:41:49 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28023; Tue, 25 May 93 00:22:23 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28017; Tue, 25 May 93 00:22:19 -0700 Via: uk.ac.qmw.omega; Tue, 25 May 1993 08:20:57 +0100 Received: from osprey.elec.qmw.ac.uk by omega.qmw.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <07613-0@omega.qmw.ac.uk>; Tue, 25 May 1993 08:20:21 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 08:19:38 +0100 (BST) From: Laurie Cuthbert Subject: Re: Addressbook format To: "David L. Miller" Cc: Laurie Cuthbert , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks On Mon, 24 May 1993, David L. Miller wrote: > > The addressbook format is very simple. A simple nickname is of the form > > nickname lastname [, firstname] address > > and a distribution list is of the form > > listname name of list "(" list-of-names ")" > > where list-of-names is a comma separated list of addresses and/or nicknames. I'm sure she would be very happy to collaborate - but it's probably best to wait until she has starteed to do the actual work. Regards Laurie Cuthbert > > Also, I have been working on the addressbook issue a bit and I would be > happy to collaborate with your student on this project. > > ***************************************************************************** > David L. Miller Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu > Systems Programmer/Network Analyst BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1 > Washington State University Tri-Cities UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller > 100 Sprout Road > Richland, WA 99352 Phone: (509)375-9245 > ***************************************************************************** > > > On Mon, 24 May 1993, Laurie Cuthbert wrote: > > > I have an MSc student who will be starting her project in July. She wishes > > to write software to convert between the different "addressbook" formats > > used by the various mail user agents we have in the dept. The idea is that > > someone should be able to use different MUAs on different machines without > > having to manually update addressbook formats. > > > > The coming question is obvious: is the format used in the pine addressbook > > publicly available? > > > > If she does produce anything of use (not always the case with MSc > > students!!) I will quite happily make it generally available. > > > > regards > > > > Laurie Cuthbert > > > > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 25 00:42:00 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04726; Tue, 25 May 93 00:42:00 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28015; Tue, 25 May 93 00:22:07 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA28009; Tue, 25 May 93 00:22:04 -0700 Via: uk.ac.qmw.omega; Tue, 25 May 1993 08:17:43 +0100 Received: from osprey.elec.qmw.ac.uk by omega.qmw.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <07584-0@omega.qmw.ac.uk>; Tue, 25 May 1993 08:17:03 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 08:17:28 +0100 (BST) From: Laurie Cuthbert Subject: Re: Addressbook format To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: Laurie Cuthbert , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks On Mon, 24 May 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > Yes, it's quite public and available. It's documented in the Pine > Technical Notes that are distributed with Pine (There's lots of other > stuff in the Technical Notes too). There's also a shell script to > convert from Berkeley .mailrc aliases to the Pine address book that's > distributed as part of Pine. > > LL > > > On Mon, 24 May 1993, Laurie Cuthbert wrote: > > > > I have an MSc student who will be starting her project in July. She wishes > > to write software to convert between the different "addressbook" formats > > used by the various mail user agents we have in the dept. The idea is that > > someone should be able to use different MUAs on different machines without > > having to manually update addressbook formats. > > > > The coming question is obvious: is the format used in the pine addressbook > > publicly available? > > > > If she does produce anything of use (not always the case with MSc > > students!!) I will quite happily make it generally available. > > > > regards > > > > Laurie Cuthbert > > > > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 25 11:00:09 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16233; Tue, 25 May 93 11:00:09 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03951; Tue, 25 May 93 10:48:29 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03945; Tue, 25 May 93 10:48:07 -0700 Via: uk.ac.durham; Tue, 25 May 1993 18:11:32 +0100 Received: from vega.dur.ac.uk by durham.ac.uk; Tue, 25 May 93 18:11:46 +0100 Received: from wansbeck.dur.ac.uk by vega.dur.ac.uk; Tue, 25 May 93 18:11:21 BST Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 17:55:00 +0100 (BST) From: Barry Cornelius Subject: Can default-fcc be set to inbox? To: Pine Info Mailing List Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII OUR PROBLEM We want to copy to ourself each message that is sent out. Is there anyway in which we can configure pine to do this automatically? POSSIBLE SOLUTION? Set the default-fcc variable (of ~/.pinerc) as follows: default-fcc=inbox This seems to work (provided IMAP is not used), e.g.: inbox-path=/var/spool/mail/dcl0bjc Although this seems to work, is this stretching the Pine system? In particular, will the file-locking on the inbox cope with this? Note, if IMAP is used, e.g.: inbox-path={vega}inbox then the message is Fcc-ed to the file ~/{vega}inbox. Is this a bug? Most of our users use IMAP rather than NFS-mounting their inbox. So we would prefer: default-fcc=inbox to work with IMAP. Will it require much work to get this working? -- Barry Cornelius Electronic mail: Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk Post: Computing Service, University of Durham, Durham, DH1 3LE, England Phone: Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717, Secretary:374 2892, Fax:374 3741 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue May 25 11:08:56 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16611; Tue, 25 May 93 11:08:56 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04117; Tue, 25 May 93 10:58:59 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from utdallas.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA04109; Tue, 25 May 93 10:58:57 -0700 From: shane@utdallas.edu Received: from infoserv.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (ZMailer 2.1.3 #231) with BLIMP id <73637>; Tue, 25 May 1993 12:58:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 12:50:22 -0500 Subject: suggestion regarding sent-mail expiring/renaming To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: billy@utdallas.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just a small ugliness... There is zero reason for pine to prompt new Pine users regarding renaming sent-mail just because they have no "last-time-prune-questioned" date in .pinerc. Adding a quick stat() call to check the size of the current sent-mail folder allows skipping the prompt if the sent-mail folder is zero bytes in length (as for new users or people who never send mail, anyway). By the way, my "system address book" functionality is working fine now. My latest pico hack was to replace P_open() (and the call for the spell checker) so that you can run things without a shell; we are using ispell -l now. ispell is certainly much more powerful than spell, but in the interest of leaving pico alone as much as possible, I used the -l option so it would behave like normal spell. Billy, the P_open() call in pico/osdep.c can be used wherever you need popen(). Its arguments are like those to execv() (varargs), except the first argument is a filename to be placed on the child's standard input (or "\0" if you don't need that). There is also a P_close() there. --Shane From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 26 03:17:49 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA05362; Wed, 26 May 93 03:17:49 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12823; Wed, 26 May 93 03:09:42 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mail.liv.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12817; Wed, 26 May 93 03:09:38 -0700 Received: from liverpool.ac.uk by mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk via Local channel id <24363-0@mailhub.liverpool.ac.uk>; Wed, 26 May 1993 11:09:25 +0100 From: C.Wooff@liverpool.ac.uk (Chris Wooff) Message-Id: <9305261109.ZM24360@mailhub.liv.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 11:09:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: Your message of May 24, 8:38pm References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93) To: Laurie Cuthbert , pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Re: Addressbook format At 8:38pm on May 24, 8:38pm Laurie Cuthbert(L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk) wrote: > I have an MSc student who will be starting her project in July. She wishes > to write software to convert between the different "addressbook" formats > used by the various mail user agents we have in the dept. The idea is that > someone should be able to use different MUAs on different machines without > having to manually update addressbook formats. > > The coming question is obvious: is the format used in the pine addressbook > publicly available? > > If she does produce anything of use (not always the case with MSc > students!!) I will quite happily make it generally available. > > Laurie Cuthbert End of insertion from Laurie Cuthbert I wrote a very short and simple minded shell script for converting an elm aliases.text file to a .addressbook. It is crude but works for me and did what I wanted. If anyone would like a copy then email me. Chris From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 26 07:18:13 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09745; Wed, 26 May 93 07:18:13 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15818; Wed, 26 May 93 07:06:45 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15812; Wed, 26 May 93 07:06:43 -0700 Received: from cliff.nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP for pine-info@cac.washington.edu (5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA27072; Wed, 26 May 93 10:06:42 -0400 Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08625; Wed, 26 May 93 10:07:17 EDT Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Feidt Reply-To: Bill Feidt Subject: Possible Bug? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi, we're running PINE 3.07 on a SUN SPARC 2. Today, I received a message with the following header: >Return-Path: >Received: from troi.cc.rochester.edu by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) > id AA08162; Wed, 26 May 93 09:04:14 EDT >Received: by troi.cc.rochester.edu (4.1/1.16) id AA14996; Wed, 26 May 93 >09:03:36 EDT >Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:03:36 EDT >Message-Id: <9305261303.AA14996@troi.cc.rochester.edu> >From: QPC Software@troi.cc.rochester.edu (via the vacation program) >Subject: Your mail message >Apparently-To: wfeidt@nalusda.gov The "shortened" form of the header came out looking as follows: >Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:03:36 EDT >From: QPC@nalusda.gov >Subject: Your mail message Something strange seems to be happening to the "From:" field in the shortened form. In the shortened form, the domain is that of the recipient rather than the sender. Possible bug? --Bill *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* | Bill Feidt | National Agricultural Library | | wfeidt@nalusda.gov | Information Systems Division | | 301/504-6813 | Beltsville, MD 20705 | *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 26 08:59:30 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA12602; Wed, 26 May 93 08:59:30 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16240; Wed, 26 May 93 08:47:15 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from ULTRIX.UOR.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16234; Wed, 26 May 93 08:47:13 -0700 Received: by ultrix.uor.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA00367; Wed, 26 May 93 08:44:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 08:43:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Sharon Deng Subject: To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Unsubscribe me please. Sharon Deng Assistant Director Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu Academic Computer Center deng@jccvms.uor.edu University of Redlands Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 26 11:07:30 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18775; Wed, 26 May 93 11:07:30 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16989; Wed, 26 May 93 10:53:32 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from log.css.itd.umich.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16983; Wed, 26 May 93 10:53:31 -0700 Received: from stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu by css.itd.umich.edu (5.67/2.2) id AA24445; Wed, 26 May 93 13:53:29 -0400 Received: by stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu (5.67/dumb-1.0) id AA25794; Wed, 26 May 93 13:53:27 -0400 Message-Id: <9305261753.AA25794@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu> From: Gordon Good To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: remote folder management Date: Wed, 26 May 93 13:53:27 -0400 I seem to recall some comment (perhaps in reference to PC-Pine) that remote folder management is going to be enhanced in future versions of Pine and PC-Pine. Here at umich, we're planning to run an IMAP service for the campus, and have run into some problems with Pine/Mailstrom incompatibility in remote folder management. Specifically, while it's easy to specify that the inbox is a remote IMAP mailbox, we'd like to be able to, in Pine, specify that all folder management take place on a remote IMAP server. This is to prevent users here from creating folders with Pine, then wondering why they can't access them from Mailstrom (since the IMAP server and the user's UNIX machines won't be sharing filesystems). So, I guess my question is: can someone fill me in on what remote folder management in Pine is going to look like in future releases? -Gordon From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 26 14:11:53 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25949; Wed, 26 May 93 14:11:53 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21592; Wed, 26 May 93 14:00:25 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA21586; Wed, 26 May 93 14:00:24 -0700 Received: by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA18530; Wed, 26 May 93 14:00:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 13:49:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Gray Reply-To: Terry Gray Subject: Re: remote folder management To: Gordon Good Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <9305261753.AA25794@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 May 1993, Gordon Good wrote: > So, I guess my question is: can someone fill me in on what remote > folder management in Pine is going to look like in future releases? Gordon, In a nushell: for both Unix Pine and PC-Pine there will be a notion of "folder-collections" (and also "news-collections") that are defined in the .pinerc file. You can think of those as directories, (though they could conceivably be a subset of a directory or some set unrelated to a directory). Any folder collection may be local or remote. Here's an excerpt from my .pinerc: news-collections=News *{news.u/nntp}[*], MailNews *{news.u/nntp}[*mail*] folder-collections=PRIMARY {shivafs.cac.washington.edu}./[*], PINE {shivafs.cac.washington.edu}PINE/[*], MailDir {shivafs.cac.washington.edu}mail/[*], OldNews {shivafs.cac.washington.edu}News/[*], Mead {mead.u.washington.edu}mail/[*], Phantom {phantom.cac.washington.edu}./[*], LAPTOP mail\[*] In this case, all of the collections except the last one are remote. Note that the path syntax is whatever is right for the OS storing the collection, so watch the direction of your slashes when mixing DOS and Unix collections. Many people will have a single collection on a timesharing host. Those who use a timesharing host for dialin and PC-Pine on their desk will typically have at least two. I find the Folder Collections paradigm useful for organizing things, so I tend to have many. Note also that the MailNews collection is defined to be the subset of available folders (newsgroups) that have the string "mail" in their name. It will also be possible for the default-fcc to be a remote folder. In order to be able to *append* to an existing remote folder (i.e. Save), or *create* a new remote folder, you will need a new version of IMAPd, to be released *soon* with PC-Pine. Without the extended IMAPd you can access remote folders, but not append to or create them. Regarding PC-Pine and "soon"... I know many of you are patiently waiting for it. Since I have a perfect record of being wrong about every date I've offered so far, I'll refrain. There is a memory leak yet to be tracked down and a couple of command name inconsistencies yet to be fixed, but there is steady progress and the goal grows ever closer. (Each week we halve the distance to the goal... :) -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed May 26 20:53:39 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA05279; Wed, 26 May 93 20:53:39 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25739; Wed, 26 May 93 20:43:12 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from scapa.cs.ualberta.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25729; Wed, 26 May 93 20:42:27 -0700 Received: from isagate by scapa.cs.ualberta.ca with UUCP id <42208>; Wed, 26 May 1993 21:41:22 -0600 Received: by isagate.edm.isac.ca (/\==/\ Smail3.1.20.1 #20.1) id ; Wed, 26 May 93 17:45 MDT Received: from isa486-1 by isasun-1.edm.isac.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.26.7 #1) id m0nyVEE-000cw3C; Wed, 26 May 93 17:49 MDT Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 18:44:49 -0600 From: Steve Hole Subject: Re: remote folder management To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Cc: ecs-info@edm.isac.ca Message-Id: Priority: Normal X-Read-Ack: No X-Delivery-Ack: No Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 May 1993 14:49:04 -0600 Terry Gray wrote: > In a nushell: for both Unix Pine and PC-Pine there will be a notion of > "folder-collections" (and also "news-collections") that are defined in the > .pinerc file. You can think of those as directories, (though they could > conceivably be a subset of a directory or some set unrelated to a > directory). We are doing fundamentally the same thing with ECSMail, except that we call the "folder collections" "Message Services". The idea is to connect to a "service" that will provide access to different message collections called "folders". We played with the idea of calling them Message Stores, but figured that Joe Average Person wouldn't get the terminology. Besides, I'd hate to elevate Mark's blood pressure over something like X.400 terminology :-) Message Services have a number of key attributes: 1. Type of service: "Mail" or "Bulletin Board". 2. Service host. 3. Authentication information. Basically the userid and password which is authorized to connect to the message service. Each Message Service is assigned a logical name (like Terry has done with Pine I see), and is always referred to by that name. Within a Message Service a user is allowed to subscribe to a number of folders. For bulletin board services (News), folders correspond to individual boards, sigs or newsgroups. Note that the underlying bboard type is completely transparent to the user. It is up to the *server* to decide what type of services it will offer and how they are accessed on the server host. Because ECSMail is a GUI based interface, we are able to do some interesting things with association of names to services and opening and closing services. I think that it will be very user friendly and easy to understand. Once the IMSP reference implementation becomes available, we'll be able to add more direct Message Service management support to the interface. I am quite looking forward to that. > In this case, all of the collections except the last one are remote. > Note that the path syntax is whatever is right for the OS storing > the collection, so watch the direction of your slashes when mixing DOS > and Unix collections. Many people will have a single collection on > a timesharing host. Those who use a timesharing host for dialin and > PC-Pine on their desk will typically have at least two. I find the > Folder Collections paradigm useful for organizing things, so I tend to > have many. I am interested as to why you maintained "path syntax" at all in your configuration. Something that I have thought for some time is that the client should really have no say at all as to where on the server messages are stored or accessed from. The server should decide all of that based on the Message Service attributes that I defined above. We have tried to be careful to hide that server OS information from the user and require only the Message Service "attributes". It works fine so far as all the user folders have to be in a standard place defined by the server. It does make sense to have a server configuration file that specifies what folders and message services are provided by that server host. Specifically, Joel King and I have thought for some time that it would be nice if the imapd server could be runtime configured to identify where user folder, inboxes and News configuration sat. That would allow a mail adminstrator to reorganize folder and mailbox directories and manage storage better. Once the Kerberized version of imapd is available, I would like to do away with the concept of having a UNIX account define a user's authentication and mail storage. If authentication is handled by the Kerberos (or some other) authentication service, then the physical location of the inbox and user folders is up to the imapd server. Of course any MTA delivering to an inbox would also have to be able to locate the inbox for delivery. I have already begun modifications to the Z-mailer MTA to be able to deliver to a user mailbox based on information held in an authentication service (Kerberos). The one interesting question that can be raised is: If I can't specify the path for my folders, then how can I organize my mail. Easy - support hierarchical folder models. ECSMail will do so in version 3.00 (end of Sept). It appears that most of the functionality we need is already in the c-client, we just need to make some modifications to the MH driver and build a nice GUI graphical representation on the front. It should provide a very nice abstraction for the user that is also very useable and powerful. > Note also that the MailNews collection is defined to be the subset of > available folders (newsgroups) that have the string "mail" in their name. > > It will also be possible for the default-fcc to be a remote folder. > > In order to be able to *append* to an existing remote folder (i.e. Save), > or *create* a new remote folder, you will need a new version of IMAPd, > to be released *soon* with PC-Pine. Without the extended IMAPd you can > access remote folders, but not append to or create them. The alpha ECSMail v2.00 uses imapd 2.4 which supports News and remote folder management functions very nicely. It works quite well, and we can happily drag and drop between local and remote folders. This is really a fine piece of work Mark! I hope I didn't ramble on too much. I think that this is important because it really emphasizes the power of the remote mail access protocol model over file based solutions. It is definitely the right solution for large organizations or organizations with highly mobile individuals. Cheers. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 27 06:19:30 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA14036; Thu, 27 May 93 06:19:30 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22204; Thu, 27 May 93 06:08:32 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.BrockU.CA by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22198; Thu, 27 May 93 06:08:30 -0700 Received: from sandcastle.cosc.BrockU.CA by nexus.BrockU.CA via SMTP (920110.SGI/911001.SGI.UNSUPPORTED.PROTOTYPE) for pine-info@cac.washington.edu id AA15558; Thu, 27 May 93 09:08:25 -0400 Received: by SANDCASTLE.COSC.BROCKU.CA (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @NEXUS.BROCKU.CA:pine-info@cac.washington.edu id AA06085; Thu, 27 May 93 09:06:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 09:02:10 -0400 (EDT) From: e Subject: SGI & NIS To: Pine Info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am having problems getting pine to use NIS entries on an SGI platform. Any local user ids that can't be found end of with a TO: entry of To: e I noticed that the make does include the sun lib which is suppose to then use the NIS calles for getpw... but it does not look like it is working. The NIS password file is in a separate file from /etc/passwd. Anyone else have similar problems or suggestions. Thanks Jamie ------------------------------------------------------ Jamie Wyatt Network and Systems Administrator Dept. of Computer Science, Brock University St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1 jwyatt@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 27 07:46:06 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15404; Thu, 27 May 93 07:46:06 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22462; Thu, 27 May 93 07:38:18 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from bgumail.bgu.ac.il by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22458; Thu, 27 May 93 07:38:13 -0700 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 16:36:31 +0300 (IDT) From: Eran Lachs Subject: Re: SGI & NIS To: e Cc: Pine Info In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello All, I've been meaning to write about Pine under SGI for quite some time now. Our imap server runs on a DecStation. Transparent access via the rimap mechanism works fine from Sun machines and IBM RS6K machines. Pine under SGI, although compiled with -lsun for NIS support, always asks for a username/password combination. Now for what Jamie has seen: > I am having problems getting pine to use NIS entries on an SGI platform. > Any local user ids that can't be found end of with a TO: entry of I've tested Composer on Sun, IBM and SGI - all produce a To: line like: To : eran@bgumail.bgu.ac.il Only the imap server machine, while running Pine, produces: To : Eran Lachs Any pointers to the above two points much appreciated. BTW - all mentined Pines are 3.05 (IBM's are 3.0.5a). Eran Lachs (eran@bgumail.bgu.ac.il) Ben Gurion University Computation Center Beer Sheva, Israel From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu May 27 09:25:39 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA19051; Thu, 27 May 93 09:25:39 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22974; Thu, 27 May 93 09:16:11 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from cse.ogi.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA22968; Thu, 27 May 93 09:16:10 -0700 Received: by ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.3) id ; Thu, 27 May 93 09:16 PDT Received: by admin.ogi.edu.ogi.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12628; Thu, 27 May 93 09:15:51 PDT Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 09:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Crowhurst Subject: Please unsubscribe me To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII --=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-=--=--=--=--=--=--=-- Jon Crowhurst (503) 690-1035 crowhurs@admin.ogi.edu Oregon Graduate Institute, 19600 NW Von Neumann Dr., Beaverton, OR 97006 --=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-=--=--=--=--=--=--=-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 28 00:20:48 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08660; Fri, 28 May 93 00:20:48 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11651; Fri, 28 May 93 00:01:45 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11643; Fri, 28 May 93 00:01:41 -0700 Received: from tower.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <15364-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Fri, 28 May 1993 07:49:22 +0100 Received: from pippin.york.ac.uk by tower.york.ac.uk via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:pine-info@cac.washington.edu id AA00772; Fri, 28 May 93 08:02:01 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:02:00 +0000 From: Mike Brudenell To: e Subject: Re: SGI & NIS Cc: Pine Info Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 27 May 1993 09:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII > I am having problems getting pine to use NIS entries on > an SGI platform. Any local user ids that can't be found > end of with a TO: entry of > > To: e > > I noticed that the make does include the sun lib which > is suppose to then use the NIS calles for getpw... but > it does not look like it is working. The NIS password > file is in a separate file from /etc/passwd. > > Anyone else have similar problems or suggestions. Yes! I had exactly this problem too! I traced the problem to some apprarent incompatibility between the compatibility routines declared in the c-client/os_sgi.c & .h files and the ones provided by the real operating system. For some strange reason the c-client for SGI comes shipped with its own functions for these functions: strtok; strchr; strrchr; strstr; strpbrk; strerror; memcpy; memmove; memset; strtol. These are all available as standard IRIX provided routines (an din fact keeping the extra c-client routines in leads to some warning mesages later from ld about multiply defined routines). I "cured" the problem simply by removing *all* the above routines from the c-clinet/os_sgi.[ch] files, did a "make clean" to remove *all* the .o and .a files, and doing a total rebuild. This problem was in Pine 3.05 too (where I originally encountered and traced it); when Pine 3.07 came along I just reapplied my context diffs to elimiate the bogus routines again. Mike B-) From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 28 00:36:44 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09049; Fri, 28 May 93 00:36:44 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11785; Fri, 28 May 93 00:23:13 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from leeman.york.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11779; Fri, 28 May 93 00:23:08 -0700 Received: from tower.york.ac.uk by leeman.york.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <15419-0@leeman.york.ac.uk>; Fri, 28 May 1993 08:10:52 +0100 Received: from pippin.york.ac.uk by tower.york.ac.uk via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for @leeman.york.ac.uk:JIMMY_T@verifone.com id AA01189; Fri, 28 May 93 08:23:32 +0100 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 08:23:31 +0000 From: Mike Brudenell To: Pine Info Subject: Re: VMS port of Pine Cc: "James H. Thompson - HNL" Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Your message <01GYO2FWX8PE8WWTVG@verifone.com> of 27 May 1993 11:24:23 -1000 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII Gosh! Isn't it amazing when you open your mouth! I've had a lot of queries from people asking about "my" VMS port of Pine. I think I'd better clear up some misapprehensions before I get inundated! * I took the standard Pine 3.07 distribution kit and unpacked it on VMS. * We are using DEC's UCX (now called TCP/IP Services for VMS?) software as a transport mechanism, and I wanted to see if I could get the Pine *client* (NB. *Not* the impad daemon) working under VMS, so VMS users could query the imapd running on our UNIX boxes. * After about an afternoon of minor fiddling with the c-client sources they all compiled happily under VAXC and linked with the UCX libraries. The "mtest" test program worked: you could connect to the UNIX IMAP service and login, list your messages, etc.. * Then came a LOT of fiddling with the Pico and Pine stuff. Unfortunately Pico/Pine are very much into using UNIX's curses or terminfo databases, and lots of ioctl calls that VAXC does not provide or fully implement :-( * I decided I couldn't progress any further. After keeping the c-client sources around for ages I eventually had to delete them ... one week before all this started (sigh!). * The c-client stuff really is trivial to get up and working. The one gotcha is that you should *resist* the temptation to bundle all the object files into an object library (a ".olb" file, the equivalent of the ".a" libraries on UNIX) as this causes the linker to create an incorrect executable (the problem lies in the linking in of the mail drivers to the main program). Instead keep all the object files separate and link them explicitly. * Some brave sole might be able to fake some terminfo or curses "compatibility" routines which provide sufficient know-how to drive, say, a VT100 type terminal (this should satisfy virtually everyone!). I can't. This would deal with the output side of things. * This leaves the input side, where someone would need to figure out about single key I/O and things. Given that there already exist similar program (such as the Gopher 1.12 program which compiles happily under VAX/VMS with VAXC and UCX) this may not be too much of a problem for someone withthe time and expertise. I'm afraid I certainly don't have at least the former :-( So to summarise.... There is and will be no progress on a VMS Pine client from me, I'm afraid. If someone else manages to get such a beastie up and running (preferably Pine 3.07) I would be *VERY* interested, as it would grealy help us in our gentle migration from VMS to UNIX over the next couple of years. *PLEASE* let me know! I hope this clears everything up a bit (I never actually said in my original message that I was still actively working on a port, but hope springs eternal in people's hearts, I suppose! :-) Mike B-) From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 28 01:21:19 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA09871; Fri, 28 May 93 01:21:19 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26753; Fri, 28 May 93 01:07:15 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26747; Fri, 28 May 93 01:07:13 -0700 Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA11596; Fri, 28 May 93 01:00:19 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 00:49:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: SGI & NIS To: Mike Brudenell Cc: e , Pine Info In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mike - Thank you for informing me about the problem with the SGI port. I have fixed it in the c-client sources, and eventually the change will percolate into the Pine distribution. I have no access to any SGI systems, so I am completely dependent upon those who do for information. The SGI port was supplied by a user, modified from one of the other ports (probably the BSD port). I would like to plead with everyone that if you discover this sort of incompatibility, don't just fix it at your site and let the matter be. Tell us about it! We are interested, and will do our utmost to get fixes in later releases. Most of the Pine development at UW is done under Ultrix or NeXT, since those are the machines used by the Pine team. We have access to a few other machines (most notably, we support Pine/imapd on the computer center's PTX machine), but otherwise we are dependent upon you for ports for other platforms as well as keeping these ports from succumbing to software rot. -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri May 28 14:12:47 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27325; Fri, 28 May 93 14:12:47 -0700 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20377; Fri, 28 May 93 14:02:02 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from blas.cis.McMaster.CA by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20371; Fri, 28 May 93 14:01:51 -0700 Received: by blas.cis.mcmaster.ca id AA03107 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Fri, 28 May 1993 10:09:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199305281409.AA03107@blas.cis.mcmaster.ca> From: johnb@blas.cis.mcmaster.ca (John Benjamins) Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 10:09:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: Mark Crispin "Re: SGI & NIS" (May 28, 12:49am) X-Department: Computing and Information Services, McMaster University X-Disclaimer: These are MY opinions, not CIS' or McMaster University's X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92) To: Pine Info Subject: Re: SGI & NIS Jamie, further to my note of last night, i just built 3.07 "out of the box" and the NIS password routines work okay. this is on machines running IRIX 4.0.1 and 4.0.5F. the fact that the NIS passwd file is not /etc/passwd is a red herring, because NIS passwd lookups go to the NIS server, not to a file on the local machine. On May 27, 9:02am, you wrote: } Subject: SGI & NIS } I am having problems getting pine to use NIS entries on an SGI platform. } Any local user ids that can't be found end of with a TO: entry of } } To: e } } I noticed that the make does include the sun lib which is suppose to then } use the NIS calles for getpw... but it does not look like it is working. } The NIS password file is in a separate file from /etc/passwd. } } Anyone else have similar problems or suggestions. } Thanks } Jamie }-- End of excerpt of May 27, 9:02am as for the following, i don't see ANY of these problems. On May 28, 8:02am, Mike Brudenell wrote: } Subject: Re: SGI & NIS } [ ... Jamie's message deleted for brevity ... ] } } Yes! I had exactly this problem too! } } I traced the problem to some apprarent incompatibility between the compatibility } routines declared in the c-client/os_sgi.c & .h files and the ones provided by } the real operating system. } } For some strange reason the c-client for SGI comes shipped with its own } functions for these functions: strtok; strchr; strrchr; strstr; strpbrk; } strerror; memcpy; memmove; memset; strtol. These are all available as standard } IRIX provided routines (an din fact keeping the extra c-client routines in leads } to some warning mesages later from ld about multiply defined routines). } } I "cured" the problem simply by removing *all* the above routines from the } c-clinet/os_sgi.[ch] files, did a "make clean" to remove *all* the .o and .a } files, and doing a total rebuild. } } This problem was in Pine 3.05 too (where I originally encountered and traced } it); when Pine 3.07 came along I just reapplied my context diffs to elimiate the } bogus routines again. } } Mike B-) } } }-- End of excerpt of May 28, 8:02am what version of IRIX are you running? are you using the SGI C compiler? rather than include my entire build log, here are the warnings i see: Making Pico .... cc -c -cckr -Dsgi -DJOB_CONTROL -g osdep.c ccom: Warning: osdep.c, line 149: void * and function pointers are not convertible to each other signal(1 , (void *)do_hup_signal); -----------------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: osdep.c, line 150: void * and function pointers are not convertible to each other signal(14 , (void *)do_alarm_signal); -------------------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: osdep.c, line 155: void * and function pointers are not convertible to each other signal(25 , (void *)winch_handler); -----------------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: osdep.c, line 558: void * and function pointers are not convertible to each other signal(28 , (void *)rtfrmshell); --------------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: osdep.c, line 595: void * and function pointers are not convertible to each other signal(14 , (void *)do_alarm_signal); -------------------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: osdep.c, line 609: void * and function pointers are not convertible to each other signal(1 , (void *)do_hup_signal); -----------------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: osdep.c, line 1323: void * and function pointers are not convertible to each other signal(25 , (void *)winch_handler); ..... Making Pine. ..... cpp: warning ./os.h:318: DF_OLD_STYLE_REPLY redefined [ ... this warning is repeated everytime os.h is #include'ed ... ] ccom: Warning: init.c, line 370: illegal combination of pointer and integer, op = if ((p=getenv("HOME")) !=0) ---------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: init.c, line 370: types : pointer to unsigned char versus int if ((p=getenv("HOME")) !=0) ---------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: init.c, line 391: illegal combination of pointer and integer, op = if ((p=getenv(word)) !=0) ---------------------------------------^ ccom: Warning: init.c, line 391: types : pointer to unsigned char versus int if ((p=getenv(word)) !=0) ---------------------------------------^ that's it. no warnings about the string functions at all. i agree though that there's no need for definitione of all the string functions in c-client/os_sgi.c, when they are already in the standard IRIX libraries. as for the original NIS problem, i don't see off-hand why these multiple definitions, etc. would cause the problem of NIS passwd lookups failing from pine. i will volunteer to clean up the SGI stuff, unless someone else wants to:-). it may take me some time before i can get to this though. Mark Crispin, On May 28, 12:49am, you wrote: } Subject: Re: SGI & NIS } Mike - } } Thank you for informing me about the problem with the SGI port. I have } fixed it in the c-client sources, and eventually the change will percolate } into the Pine distribution. I have no access to any SGI systems, so I am } completely dependent upon those who do for information. The SGI port was } supplied by a user, modified from one of the other ports (probably the BSD } port). } } I would like to plead with everyone that if you discover this sort of } incompatibility, don't just fix it at your site and let the matter be. Tell } us about it! We are interested, and will do our utmost to get fixes in later } releases. Most of the Pine development at UW is done under Ultrix or NeXT, } since those are the machines used by the Pine team. We have access to a few } other machines (most notably, we support Pine/imapd on the computer center's } PTX machine), but otherwise we are dependent upon you for ports for other } platforms as well as keeping these ports from succumbing to software rot. } } -- Mark -- } }-- End of excerpt of May 28, 12:49am hope this helps. -- // E. John Benjamins -- // Calvin: "Verbing weirds language." \\ Hobbes: "Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment \\ to understanding." From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon May 31 10:15:55 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA08767; Mon, 31 May 93 10:15:55 -0700 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13345; Mon, 31 May 93 10:01:50 -0700 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from qualcom.qualcomm.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA13339; Mon, 31 May 93 10:01:48 -0700 Received: from happy.qualcomm.com by qualcomm.com; id AA25629 sendmail 5.65/QC-main-2.1 via SMTP Mon, 31 May 93 10:01:47 -0700 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: by happy; id AA02441 sendmail 5.67/QC-subsidiary-2.1 Mon, 31 May 93 10:01:45 -0700 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 10:00:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Ferraro Subject: To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII help